NI protocol

[Unlucky4Sum]

What the feck are you on about now . The WA Bill which you link is the proposed bill to ratify the WA agreement not the WA itself .
Of course Johnson changed the bill , Mayhem had failed to get it through parliament and lost her job because of it . What he changed was the N Ireland protocol specifically the backstop  not the WA .

Do read documents before you post bollox or at least ask why they're relevant.  

I'll explain it for you

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8713/  is the explainer for Boris's Oct 2019 revision.  It contains these words: 'Changes to the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland'

followed by 16 paragraphs detailing significant changes

then https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-new-eu-withdrawal-agreement-bill-whats-changed/ is the explainer for Boris's Dec 2019 revision.  It contains these words 'Some major changes have been made between the original October WAB and the newly introduced December WAB. In an initial assessment we have been able to identify several key differences.'   Followed by 

'Three clauses and one Schedule have been removed outright from the original October WAB.'  And then explains how they're not trivial

and later

'There are five clauses that have been added to the WAB that were not present in the original October WAB.' which it then details showing they are by no means minor.

And follows that with 'The following may not be exhaustive, but an initial review of the December version of the WAB suggests the following changes to other clauses:'

But according to you there are no such changes .   That's because you can stomach the fact that it was your Leave pals that screwed up and that there never was a way to leave and have everything fine, far from it.

Stop denying your own shit

[Streetwalker]

I wouldn't bother you will only get twisted logic, just withhold your vote, let them carry on it will bite back big time.

Im waiting for the Messiah 

[Streetwalker]

Well you're wrong on the content  https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-new-eu-withdrawal-agreement-bill-whats-changed/ talks of 'Major Changes' and that was after the previous changes https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8713/

And it was the treaty Boris wanted having voted down the other one.  And yet you're saying it was rewritten by remainers.  Can I suggest you consider reality?

What the feck are you on about now . The WA Bill which you link is the proposed bill to ratify the WA agreement not the WA itself .
Of course Johnson changed the bill , Mayhem had failed to get it through parliament and lost her job because of it . What he changed was the N Ireland protocol specifically the backstop  not the WA .

[Sheepy]

LOL , it was the same text all 599 pages of it  bar the removal of the Irish backstop , a few tweaks to regulatory allianment and of course the inclusion of article 16

I wouldn't bother you will only get twisted logic, just withhold your vote, let them carry on it will bite back big time.

[Unlucky4Sum]

LOL , it was the same text all 599 pages of it  bar the removal of the Irish backstop , a few tweaks to regulatory allianment and of course the inclusion of article 16

Well you're wrong on the content  https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-new-eu-withdrawal-agreement-bill-whats-changed/ talks of 'Major Changes' and that was after the previous changes https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8713/ 

And it was the treaty Boris wanted having voted down the other one.  And yet you're saying it was rewritten by remainers.  Can I suggest you consider reality? 

[Streetwalker]

No that was the Withdrawal agreement we didn't sign

The one we signed was Boris's

LOL , it was the same text all 599 pages of it  bar the removal of the Irish backstop , a few tweaks to regulatory allianment and of course the inclusion of article 16 

[Unlucky4Sum]

The WA was framed by Theresa (Brino) May and Michel Barnier Brexit deal: Theresa May determined to 'see this through' amid growing criticism – as it happened | Brexit | The Guardianwhich led to the resignation of brexit secretary Dominic Raab

'Reluctant conscript' David Davis quits as Brexit secretary | Politics News | Sky News
Lord Frost resigns as Brexit minister - BBC News

Both walked away when they realised Theresa Mays WA wasnt going to cut the mustard . Niether wanted to put their names on it as the EU were adament they wouldn't change it . Johnson as we know didnt even read it , he thought art 16 was enough to ensure he could revisit the deal after we had 'left'. .

Every Tory leaver who had anything to do with it walked away ,thats the truth of the matter .

No that was the Withdrawal agreement we didn't sign

The one we signed was Boris's 

[Streetwalker]

Oh dear you've now moved to page 6 of the Book of False Excuses for Leavers to use when out reasoned.

Davis was a Leaver, Frost was a Leaver, Boris of course was a leaver.  They were the ones who framed the WA.  That's the truth but seems you can't handle the truth

The WA was framed by Theresa (Brino) May and Michel Barnier Brexit deal: Theresa May determined to 'see this through' amid growing criticism – as it happened | Brexit | The Guardianwhich led to the resignation of brexit secretary Dominic Raab

'Reluctant conscript' David Davis quits as Brexit secretary | Politics News | Sky News
Lord Frost resigns as Brexit minister - BBC News

Both walked away when they realised Theresa Mays WA wasnt going to cut the mustard . Niether wanted to put their names on it as the EU were adament they wouldn't change it . Johnson as we know didnt even read it , he thought art 16 was enough to ensure he could revisit the deal after we had 'left'. .

Every Tory leaver who had anything to do with it walked away ,thats the truth of the matter .

[GerryT]

If the people ruling this country were Brexiteer elite it would be a completly different story . The problem is they are remainers , the WA was written by remainers and slight variations of it signed by succesion of  remainers 

All the deals were thrown out when Johnson got in and by 2019 with his landslide majority he could do exactly as he, the ERG, DUP and other frantic brexiteers Frost/Davis/Rabb for example. But its the same old UK politics, your politicians promise a whole heap of lies, you swallow it and then when it goes tits up blame it all on the ....(insert here EU/French/Immigrants/USA/the Pope...) This was a tory brexit led govt, voted in by the people and doing what the people wanted. Just because the deal they got is far worse than you thought it might be doesn't mean it's not the best that they could achieve. Just keep telling yourself UK small..EU big. Then you can set the bar of expectation lower.

We are agreed , there are other factors . The World was forecast to go into recession not so long ago in 2023 , we seem to have just about avioded it , Germany its reported might not be so lucky .

No G7 country is expected to go into a recession in 2023, except for the UK. The UK narrowly missed a recession at the end of 2022 and the UK was the only country in the G7 not to have recovered to pre pandemic levels.

We have taken the first steps ,as I outlined there is still some work to do 

You have left, you have no say in policy decisions, no vote on decisions made and no people sitting at the table. You don't pay into the EU anymore and the EU see's the UK as a third country.

Nowhere (apart from maybe in jest) has it been suggested by anyone in the UK that there be a border between N Ireland and EU Land . All the ideas that threaten the GFA  have come from the WA and the NI protocol 

The WA has little importance for future trade. The TCA (trade and co-operation agreement) and NI protocol are the new agreements. They don't threaten the GFA, they protect and reiterate it. The UK proposed a border between NI and GB, that's why it's in there, its the plan.

[Unlucky4Sum]

If the people ruling this country were Brexiteer elite it would be a completly different story . The problem is they are remainers , the WA was written by remainers and slight variations of it signed by succesion of  remainers  . . .

Oh dear you've now moved to page 6 of the Book of False Excuses for Leavers to use when out reasoned.

Davis was a Leaver, Frost was a Leaver, Boris of course was a leaver.  They were the ones who framed the WA.  That's the truth but seems you can't handle the truth

[Streetwalker]

Brexit has happened, it is complete, there is no more "brexit" to be done. Your not happy, it's not Labour's fault, it's not the EU's fault, its the 17 odd million that voted for Brexit, it's their fault.  If you want the financial situation to get far worse, Your financial markets are clinging onto the EU market, it's slipping away and their crying, you suggesting to bonfire those EU regs would have a serious impact on UK financial markets, they wouldn't thank you. You have total control over your fishing waters and you traded access for other concessions from the EU, that's a negotiation, give and take. Remember EU big, UK small, that will help you understand the new position the UK holds in the globe.  You have 100% control over what you do, but you don't understand why the brexiteer elite ruling your country don't do what you want. The reason is your countries finances would get far worse, thats why.
Brexit is working, as predicted, badly.

If the people ruling this country were Brexiteer elite it would be a completly different story . The problem is they are remainers , the WA was written by remainers and slight variations of it signed by succesion of  remainers 

Of course I'm going to use the economy as A guide as to how well Brexit is doing.  Only an idiot wouldn't but that's not to say it's THE guide, of course there are other factors

We are agreed , there are other factors . The World was forecast to go into recession not so long ago in 2023 , we seem to have just about avioded it , Germany its reported might not be so lucky .

As for whether we have left well of course we have.  

We have taken the first steps ,as I outlined there is still some work to do 

  Effectively projecting the 'if we ever have to talk to a Frenchman we haven't left' line really isn't the way to intelligent debate is it.  

Dont be daft 

The UK electorate would overwhelmingly support the GFA is put to a vote but adhering to the GFA has obligations including finding a way to have an open border NI-Ireland.  There are no ways to achieve that with the fundamentalist view of Brexit you project. 

Nowhere (apart from maybe in jest) has it been suggested by anyone in the UK that there be a border between N Ireland and EU Land . All the ideas that threaten the GFA  have come from the WA and the NI protocol 

You really need to accept that a fundamentalist view is the road to hell.

Thats your opinion , not mine 

[GerryT]

Brexit isn't even 25% done that is the problem. The Tory government appears to be doing precisely zero to address that.

Nobody knew what brexit was, people voted leave for many reasons, sovereignty, NHS windfall, refugee crisis, better trade deals outside the EU etc... it was never defined so people can't really start moaning and saying it's not done. In reality it is done. The UK has left and the deal negotiated has given the UK some access to EU markets and vice versa, this means it's not a clean cut, there will be some concessions on both side for that access.

Nobody is happy because there was no oven ready deal, no real debate prior to the 2016 vote outlining where the UK would be post the referendum. So now you have it, this is brexit, this is what people voted for 7yrs ago, you went where the tories brought you. They have been in power for over a decade. How people listened to the likes of Farage and Johnson with slogans like "get brexit done" what did that even mean ?

The relationship will develop, change and where it goes depends on the Govt the UK elects and the PM's & MEP's EU members elect, they are the ones that shape the future relationship, the elected peoples.

[Unlucky4Sum]

As I was going to say before I hit post by mistake , If your going to use the economy as a guide to how well Brexit is doing you could at least have the decency to wait until the process is complete because as far as Im concerned we haven't left yet .
Apart from N ireland still being in the single market and all that entails  the Financial markets  are  still governed under EU laws which ties up billions of our £'s  ,our waters are still occupied by foriegn fishing fleets ,ECJ rulings are still binding on retained EU law as well as the rights of our EU citizens .
We are also still under obligation to pay vast sums of money to the EU under the WA .

The Tories have failed , where is the de regulation , the bonfire of EU laws , Why are we still tied to the EU in so many ways ? We can't even build non combat security vessels without first offering the job of doing so to the EU . Its fecking madness ,we were supposed to have our freedom from Brussels  but we have nothing like it .

When we have we can start disecting whether Brexit is working ,until then we are talking about Government policy not Brexit

Of course I'm going to use the economy as A guide as to how well Brexit is doing.  Only an idiot wouldn't but that's not to say it's THE guide, of course there are other factors

But wages+jobs+taxes+prices is not only overwhelmingly THE economy to the electorate it is the most important aspect.

As for whether we have left well of course we have.  Effectively projecting the 'if we ever have to talk to a Frenchman we haven't left' line really isn't the way to intelligent debate is it.  Every time you get in a car, fly in a plane or even post on this forum you are significantly governed by standards determined in the United States.  Are you going to say that means we're part of the USA.

The UK electorate would overwhelmingly support the GFA is put to a vote but adhering to the GFA has obligations including finding a way to have an open border NI-Ireland.  There are no ways to achieve that with the fundamentalist view of Brexit you project. 

You really need to accept that a fundamentalist view is the road to hell.

[papasmurf]

Brexit has happened, it is complete, there is no more "brexit" to be done. 

Brexit isn't even 25% done that is the problem. The Tory government appears to be doing precisely zero to address that.

[GerryT]

As I was going to say before I hit post by mistake , If your going to use the economy as a guide to how well Brexit is doing you could at least have the decency to wait until the process is complete because as far as Im concerned we haven't left yet .
Apart from N ireland still being in the single market and all that entails  the Financial markets  are  still governed under EU laws which ties up billions of our £'s  ,our waters are still occupied by foriegn fishing fleets ,ECJ rulings are still binding on retained EU law as well as the rights of our EU citizens .
We are also still under obligation to pay vast sums of money to the EU under the WA .

The Tories have failed , where is the de regulation , the bonfire of EU laws , Why are we still tied to the EU in so many ways ? We can't even build non combat security vessels without first offering the job of doing so to the EU . Its fecking madness ,we were supposed to have our freedom from Brussels  but we have nothing like it .

When we have we can start disecting whether Brexit is working ,until then we are talking about Government policy not Brexit

Brexit has happened, it is complete, there is no more "brexit" to be done. Your not happy, it's not Labour's fault, it's not the EU's fault, its the 17 odd million that voted for Brexit, it's their fault.  If you want the financial situation to get far worse, Your financial markets are clinging onto the EU market, it's slipping away and their crying, you suggesting to bonfire those EU regs would have a serious impact on UK financial markets, they wouldn't thank you. You have total control over your fishing waters and you traded access for other concessions from the EU, that's a negotiation, give and take. Remember EU big, UK small, that will help you understand the new position the UK holds in the globe.  You have 100% control over what you do, but you don't understand why the brexiteer elite ruling your country don't do what you want. The reason is your countries finances would get far worse, thats why.
Brexit is working, as predicted, badly.