UK government’s Alternative Fuel Payment

[papasmurf]

Nobody here said they'd pay sixty quid for a £17 bottle of wine, thinking it's a rip off shows you don't understand. It was an explanation as to why I don't drink in pubs that much. I hope you enjoy your lobster.

Spiny lobster, far rarer and far more expensive than lobster. However my wife and I can get four meals out of a spiny lobster.
(My friend won't be able to guarantee catching one for my birthday. But he is more likely to catch one than any other of the local inshore/dayboat fishermen.)

[Nick]

Nick I know more than enough about life not to be ripped of paying £60 a bottle for plonk in a pub. My knowledge of life at 74 years old is a lot more than you seem to think. I also will not be paying £300 for a Spiny Lobster for my next birthday dinner. (That is what they charge in London.) My friend Martin will charge me the off his fishing boat price and cook it for me.

Nobody here said they'd pay sixty quid for a £17 bottle of wine, thinking it's a rip off shows you don't understand. It was an explanation as to why I don't drink in pubs that much. I hope you enjoy your lobster. 

[papasmurf]

That is because it was Mrs Smurf paying Pappy. 

She wasn't, I used the household debit card and tipped using cash.

[papasmurf]

And this is where your knowledge of life falls down. 

Nick I know more than enough about life not to be ripped of paying £60 a bottle for plonk in a pub. My knowledge of life at 74 years old is a lot more than you seem to think. I also will not be paying £300 for a Spiny Lobster for my next birthday dinner. (That is what they charge in London.) My friend Martin will charge me the off his fishing boat price and cook it for me. 

[Borchester]

I am fully aware of that, but £60 for a bottle of wine would be more than my wife paid for meal and drinks in a pub three weeks ago in the Cotswolds.

That is because it was Mrs Smurf paying Pappy. If it had been you you would just passed over your credit card, because no one checks the bill when he is out with his girl.

That said, how the hell do you work out the tip? I usually have a rough idea of what has been spent, but I live in fear that I will upset the waitress and have her piddle in my coffee next time.

[Nick]

I am fully aware of that, but £60 for a bottle of wine would be more than my wife paid for meal and drinks in a pub three weeks ago in the Cotswolds.

And this is where your knowledge of life falls down. Your £9 bottle of Australian Punch that PP is on about will be half that in an off-licence of Tesco, but I guess you understand profit. 
A decent wine might sit on the shelf for 2 months which is costing money so it has to be sold at £60 to justify being there. You having egg and chips with a bottle of Concord means nothing, as you keep telling everyone personal experiences mean nothing. My Tom Yum Goong, Sea Food Pad Cha and a few bottles of something nice will be double your £60 at least, it's just choices and means nowt. 

[papasmurf]

There are many types of pubs. 

I am fully aware of that, but £60 for a bottle of wine would be more than my wife paid for meal and drinks in a pub three weeks ago in the Cotswolds.

[patman post]

What sort of pub are you using that charges £60 for a bottle of wine?

There are many types of pubs. Some offer Australian reds from £9 a bottle. Then there's the likes of the Trafalgar Tavern in Greenwich recently visited — it offers (from memory) sparkling up to £55 for English champers and £65 for the real thing, and reds from £25 to £65...

[Borchester]

What sort of pub are you using that charges £60 for a bottle of wine?

Quite a lot where I live.

If I am drinking something decent I prefer to do so at home, but there are plenty of bankers in the area who like to invest in actresses

[papasmurf]

I ain't paying £60 for a £17 bottle of wine in a pub. 

What sort of pub are you using that charges £60 for a bottle of wine? 

[Nick]

As you have already been told, Pappy knows all things and no one should dare argue with him.

That said and at the risk of repeating myself, the problem with pubs is that everyone wants to run a bottle party and a lot of landlords are their own best customers. One of the saddest things when I worked for HMRC was to go behind the spit and polish of the bar and see the poverty of the average landlord.

I don't drink that much beer as a rule, I like a nice bottle of red. Your average boozer cannot justify having a Barolo, Montepulciano or CNP sitting on the shelf for months unless they charge £60 a bottle for it, and I ain't paying £60 for a £17 bottle of wine in a pub. 20 odd year olds don't go out midweek and at weekend get rat arsed and don't go out til 2, you see them staggering home at breakfast time. 
It's the same as Amazon killing the high street, everyone will moan like hell that their local shop is closing but they'll still shop on Amazon. There was a petition in my area to save the library, no buffet ever went near it until it was closing. Too late was the cry. 

[papasmurf]

As you have already been told, Pappy knows all things and no one should dare argue with him.

I am only following news, current affairs, and relevant websites. The information is all public domain.  I expected pub and hospitality related businesses to start going bust/closing permanently but not at the rate they are this early in the year. (Update on a earlier comment I made earlier the football club bar may shut permanently as well.)

[Borchester]

It will show a big drop in the last 2 years due to Covid, but I guess you'll say that isn't the major factor. Inflation is being driven by Putin and the war BTW.

As you have already been told, Pappy knows all things and no one should dare argue with him.

That said and at the risk of repeating myself, the problem with pubs is that everyone wants to run a bottle party and a lot of landlords are their own best customers. One of the saddest things when I worked for HMRC was to go behind the spit and polish of the bar and see the poverty of the average landlord.

[Nick]

I am not wrong. The data info has not caught up with the current situation.
That data does not show the recent massive increase in pub closures. It will not show on the data yet. (Several more in Cornwall announced to-day.)

Even this data is not current:-

Pub and bar closures nearly double in past year - Completely Retail News

16th February 2023

The UK's pub and bar industry saw a near record-breaking amount of bankruptcies last year with more than 500 businesses collapsing.

Around 512 licensed venues went out of business, reflecting a jump of 83% on the previous year, according to the latest Insolvency Service research by accountancy firm UHY Hacker Young.

Insolvencies of pub and bar companies increased from 280 in 2021 to 512 in 2022, as rail strikes, and the cost-of-living crisis hit consumer footfall. This latest figure was close to the peak of 551 recorded in 2013.

Pub and bar companies have faced increasing costs and concerns over falling sales. Energy prices have soared and hit pub companies' wallets hard throughout the winter after the government removed support for businesses' energy bills.

At the same time, inflation has pushed up the prices that pubs need to pay for beer and food.

Peter Kubik, head of turnaround and recovery at UHY Hacker Young, said: "It's deeply concerning that so many pubs and bars are closing their doors. In addition to the financial consequences for owners and employees, the loss of a pub can be felt quite keenly by the community."

"Perhaps the government should consider what it can do to alleviate pressures, for instance, by extending the energy bill relief scheme for the hospitality sector."
The industry is bracing itself for potentially more closures when the Government's £18bn energy support package comes to an end, from the end of March.

It will show a big drop in the last 2 years due to Covid, but I guess you'll say that isn't the major factor. Inflation is being driven by Putin and the war BTW. 

[papasmurf]

As shown below you are proved wrong, and any use of inflation is just another nail. Pubs have been closing at the same rate for 23 years, with the slightly bigger drop in 2008.

I am not wrong. The data info has not caught up with the current situation.
That data does not show the recent massive increase in pub closures. It will not show on the data yet. (Several more in Cornwall announced to-day.)

Even this data is not current:-

Pub and bar closures nearly double in past year - Completely Retail News

16th February 2023

The UK's pub and bar industry saw a near record-breaking amount of bankruptcies last year with more than 500 businesses collapsing.

Around 512 licensed venues went out of business, reflecting a jump of 83% on the previous year, according to the latest Insolvency Service research by accountancy firm UHY Hacker Young.

Insolvencies of pub and bar companies increased from 280 in 2021 to 512 in 2022, as rail strikes, and the cost-of-living crisis hit consumer footfall. This latest figure was close to the peak of 551 recorded in 2013.

Pub and bar companies have faced increasing costs and concerns over falling sales. Energy prices have soared and hit pub companies' wallets hard throughout the winter after the government removed support for businesses' energy bills.

At the same time, inflation has pushed up the prices that pubs need to pay for beer and food.

Peter Kubik, head of turnaround and recovery at UHY Hacker Young, said: "It's deeply concerning that so many pubs and bars are closing their doors. In addition to the financial consequences for owners and employees, the loss of a pub can be felt quite keenly by the community."

"Perhaps the government should consider what it can do to alleviate pressures, for instance, by extending the energy bill relief scheme for the hospitality sector."
The industry is bracing itself for potentially more closures when the Government's £18bn energy support package comes to an end, from the end of March.