So where are these 40 trade deals?

[T00ts]

::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::

He who laughs last laughs longest. You might have peeked too soon. How come you have 6 emojis on there? I thought the limit was 5.  

[GerryT]

Today Michael Gove has fried a shot across the EU bows stating that if we don't see significant progress in negotiations by June we are calling the whole thing off and prepping for WTO. Why do you think that was? Is it within the realms of possibility that the UK has outstripped it's expectations with regard to agreed trade deals? We won't know for a few months yet, but I am pretty certain the EU will be getting nervous now with the governments Haka today.  



You have got to concede that the eyes of Spain, Italy, Greece, The Netherlands and France are on the UK. They're all EU sceptic and will follow our lead if the UK is doing well... Or even holding a status quo. That will leave Germany well and truly holding the 👶.

 ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::

[Nick]

Yeah, you posted the figures and claimed that they proved that there would likely be no damage from Brexit.  You based this on the idea that, simply because the projected growth figures were higher than those of the Eurozone, this meant that Brexit clearly wasn't going to be damaging.  I then showed you that this was a stupid assertion — because the UK's projected growth was well below its average growth over the last 30 years and that, with sluggish growth clearly being a feature since 2016 and the IMF predicting more sluggish growth.  So the figures you posted clea



Now, other Leavers on here will tend to accept the reality of a hit from Brexit.  You on the other hand went to all the trouble of getting those IMF figures (well, you read about them in an article and got excited clearly without actually doing any further reading), and then deriving a demonstrably false conclusion.



You said earlier that perhaps you came back onto the forum out of a sense of masochism.  Indeed, maybe it's the case that you have a fetish for being proven wrong. Is it extra arousing when 'Paddys' do it ?

Today Michael Gove has fried a shot across the EU bows stating that if we don't see significant progress in negotiations by June we are calling the whole thing off and prepping for WTO. Why do you think that was? Is it within the realms of possibility that the UK has outstripped it's expectations with regard to agreed trade deals? We won't know for a few months yet, but I am pretty certain the EU will be getting nervous now with the governments Haka today.  



You have got to concede that the eyes of Spain, Italy, Greece, The Netherlands and France are on the UK. They're all EU sceptic and will follow our lead if the UK is doing well... Or even holding a status quo. That will leave Germany well and truly holding the 👶.

[Conchúr]

::  :: You really are quite pathetic. Desperately trying to reopen an argument you have so woefully already lost. I really am not interested in debating, to use the term loosely, with you. You have nothing to say which resonates with me on any worthwhile level. Now I am not wasting any more of my leisure time on this pointless and futile exchange with you. The problem is that you are too stupid or stubborn or both to realise that you are making a complete dick of yourself. Now what exactly is it about f**k off you don't understand?

Good man.  Hopefully you spend the rest of your leisure time this evening reading a book or doing some meaningful research — so that the next time you come on here spouting drivel about "interfering foreigners" you might at least present some figures that you actually understand.



Gazing into that crystal ball of mine, I won't be holding my breath.

[Major Sinic]

Yeah, you posted the figures and claimed that they proved that there would likely be no damage from Brexit.  You based this on the idea that, simply because the projected growth figures were higher than those of the Eurozone, this meant that Brexit clearly wasn't going to be damaging.  I then showed you that this was a stupid assertion — because the UK's projected growth was well below its average growth over the last 30 years and that, with sluggish growth clearly being a feature since 2016 and the IMF predicting more sluggish growth.  So the figures you posted clea



Now, other Leavers on here will tend to accept the reality of a hit from Brexit.  You on the other hand went to all the trouble of getting those IMF figures (well, you read about them in an article and got excited clearly without actually doing any further reading), and then deriving a demonstrably false conclusion.



You said earlier that perhaps you came back onto the forum out of a sense of masochism.  Indeed, maybe it's the case that you have a fetish for being proven wrong. Is it extra arousing when 'Paddys' do it ?

 ::  :: You really are quite pathetic. Desperately trying to reopen an argument you have so woefully already lost. I really am not interested in debating, to use the term loosely, with you. You have nothing to say which resonates with me on any worthwhile level. Now I am not wasting any more of my leisure time on this pointless and futile exchange with you. The problem is that you are too stupid or stubborn or both to realise that you are making a complete dick of yourself. Now what exactly is it about f**k off you don't understand?

[Conchúr]

     My argument supported by IMF figures was strong and cogent. It was you that demonstrated that you could either not understand a clearly stated argument well supported by fact or perhaps more likely that you didn't like having your own argument shot from under you. You really are not as bright as you think you are. There was no huff from me. I had proven my argument beyond all objective doubt and saw little purpose in proceeding with a sniping debate with a man who I had no respect for and whose views were woolly and ill thought out.

Yeah, you posted the figures and claimed that they proved that there would likely be no damage from Brexit.  You based this on the idea that, simply because the projected growth figures were higher than those of the Eurozone, this meant that Brexit clearly wasn't going to be damaging.  I then showed you that this was a stupid assertion — because the UK's projected growth was well below its average growth over the last 30 years and that, with sluggish growth clearly being a feature since 2016 and the IMF predicting more sluggish growth.  So the figures you posted clea



Now, other Leavers on here will tend to accept the reality of a hit from Brexit.  You on the other hand went to all the trouble of getting those IMF figures (well, you read about them in an article and got excited clearly without actually doing any further reading), and then deriving a demonstrably false conclusion.



You said earlier that perhaps you came back onto the forum out of a sense of masochism.  Indeed, maybe it's the case that you have a fetish for being proven wrong. Is it extra arousing when 'Paddys' do it ?

[Major Sinic]

This is truly embarassing stuff.  Jingoistic claptrap with a side order of "bloody foreigners" — personally I'd like to think most Leavers on here would distance themselves from this anachronistic backwards worldview.  



You pontificate about crystal ball gazing ...well...it wasn't so long ago you came on here waving IMF figures around with enthusiastic triumphalism.  You then took a huff when I pointed out the limitations in your understanding of the figures and called me an "unqualified foreigner".  



It's not much use criticising others for crystal ball gazing when you can't even understand the figures that you yourself post.  Maybe if you spent less time fretting over the nationality of someone offering a view, and more time thinking critically and objectively, you might manage to sound like you're making an intelligent argument rather than dismissing people because of where they come from.

       My argument supported by IMF figures was strong and cogent. It was you that demonstrated that you could either not understand a clearly stated argument well supported by fact or perhaps more likely that you didn't like having your own argument shot from under you. You really are not as bright as you think you are. There was no huff from me. I had proven my argument beyond all objective doubt and saw little purpose in proceeding with a sniping debate with a man who I had no respect for and whose views were woolly and ill thought out.

[Conchúr]

What made me open the Brexit section of the forum? Masochism? Curiousity? Boredom? Amusement? Probably a pinch of each! It has taken the UK over three and a half years to implement the democratic decision for the UK to leave the EU; a decision which was firmly confirmed in the General Election.



Even after all this wasted time we have only made it to the starting grid. However to read the ongoing Brexit threads one might get the impression rom the interering foreigners in the Republic of Ireland and the resentful remainers from within that the UK is already on the way to economic. social and cultural hell in a hand cart. Now we know that the Irish in particular are partial to leprechauns and other elf like creations, enjoy star gazing and fairy tales and looking into upside goldfish bowls and pontificating about the future. They are joined on this post-Brexit thread by the usual suspects Beelebub, Javert with only Quackers missing.



The bottom line is that none of these self-important pompous proseletyzers has the gift of prophecy, and however much they may hope the UK falls flat on its face, there are as yet no signs or facts to indicate that this will be the case. Now I understand the paddys are worried sick about their own political upheavals just as their kissing cousins in the North have stopped acting like children and reopened Stormont, and recognise that without EU economic help the economic damage Brexit will do to the Republic will be considerable. But what about the UK non-democrats? Well they want it all to fail just so they can sit their poverty stricken but smug, bleating 'I told you so.'



Everything I hoped would happen hitherto has! We have a strong Tory Government with a considerable majority, led by an increasingly strong and statesmanlike Prime Ministerwho against many peoples fears is daily proving to be the 'One Nation Tory' he promised to be and not the far right leader feared by the fevered left. We have left the EU politically and I have the strong hope ( I don't do crystal ball gazing) grounded on reason that within five short years the UK will be the economic envy of many of the of the 27, which by then may well be less.



On the meantime I will ignore these pompous and spiteful soothsayers. Fortunately they don'y stray far from this thread.

This is truly embarassing stuff.  Jingoistic claptrap with a side order of "bloody foreigners" — personally I'd like to think most Leavers on here would distance themselves from this anachronistic backwards worldview.  



You pontificate about crystal ball gazing ...well...it wasn't so long ago you came on here waving IMF figures around with enthusiastic triumphalism.  You then took a huff when I pointed out the limitations in your understanding of the figures and called me an "unqualified foreigner".  



It's not much use criticising others for crystal ball gazing when you can't even understand the figures that you yourself post.  Maybe if you spent less time fretting over the nationality of someone offering a view, and more time thinking critically and objectively, you might manage to sound like you're making an intelligent argument rather than dismissing people because of where they come from.

[Major Sinic]

I thinks we have to recognise that all sides told lies during the Brexit campaign and in the years after. But whether there are/were/could be 40 deals waiting to be signed must surely now be regarded as birds-in-the-bush, when the UK already had 60-plus deals to hand through its membership of the EU. Still that's spilt milk, and I'd hate to be thought of as a self-important pompous proseletyzer...

So sorry Old Chap and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is exactly how many on the forum do see you!    



A lie is a deliberately stated untruth which the speaker or author knows to be untrue. It is the easiest insult to throw at any politician, often with little justification. Both sides of the Brexit argument have told outrageous lies but the most regularly repeated accusations are often not the most blatant. Was that a promise on the bus? or merely an illustration on how the UK's contribution to the EU might be better spent? Might it even turn out to be true?



How do so many soured revisionist remainers and pumped-up paddys who enjoy referring to Boris as a serial liar over statements which have not yet had time to bear fruition justify their fiction? Its back to that crystal ball they are all so keen on looking into. But fortune telling isn't a justification for calling someone a liar.



Less than two months since the General Election which gave the Conservatives a mighty majority, despite or because of the supposed arch liar Boris Johnson and we are well along the road to not only securing 40 trade agreements but exceeding that number. Boris is a leader who paints broad brush strokes; I posit that the famous forty was a statement of intent, an ambition an objective. Does it really matter if it takes a few months longer?



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit">https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-ag ... eal-brexit">https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit



So that is 19 signed, 19 under current engagement, three benefiting from mutual recognition agreements and an exchange of letters with 1. And that doesn't include the 41 trade agreements that the EU has with other nations and the 27 EU nations with which we still enjoy free trade! Let us not fool ourselves into believing that these 41 agreements are all in the UK interests; many while benefiting the EU as a trading block are against the UK's interests, in particular a number relating to agricultural imports and exports!

[Major Sinic]

I thought Brexit was "done" and BJ's "oven ready" deal was served?



Now you are saying that we have only just reached the starting grid?!

You do struggle with reality old chap. Boris's oven ready deal was of course the Withdrawal Agreement; the foundation for the next stage in the development o the UK's independence.



Politically Brexit is done and now we are moving on, negotiating trade arrangements, not just with the 12% and shrinking portion of the global economy that is the EU but with almost any of the 88% or so which is outside the EU.

[T00ts]

now we've left the EU, i think it's important to keep a watch on how the promises made will pan out.



If the majority of the promises made pan out then the UK may well be better off, have greater control over it's course and be more influential in the world.



On the other hand if the majority of the promises turn out to be lies we could be in trouble.



So far the "40 trade deals" promise seems a lie.



as does the "no border in the irish sea"



and "no friction trade with the EU"



Not a great start.

At least you grant that we will have to wait to see it pan out. Sometimes there has to be a means to an end.

[BeElBeeBub]

I thinks we have to recognise that all sides told lies during the Brexit campaign and in the years after. But whether there are/were/could be 40 deals waiting to be signed must surely now be regarded as birds-in-the-bush, when the UK already had 60-plus deals to hand through its membership of the EU. Still that's spilt milk, and I'd hate to be thought of as a self-important pompous proseletyzer...

now we've left the EU, i think it's important to keep a watch on how the promises made will pan out.



If the majority of the promises made pan out then the UK may well be better off, have greater control over it's course and be more influential in the world.



On the other hand if the majority of the promises turn out to be lies we could be in trouble.



So far the "40 trade deals" promise seems a lie.



as does the "no border in the irish sea"



and "no friction trade with the EU"



Not a great start.

[patman post]

I thinks we have to recognise that all sides told lies during the Brexit campaign and in the years after. But whether there are/were/could be 40 deals waiting to be signed must surely now be regarded as birds-in-the-bush, when the UK already had 60-plus deals to hand through its membership of the EU. Still that's spilt milk, and I'd hate to be thought of as a self-important pompous proseletyzer...

[papasmurf]

Now you are saying that we have only just reached the starting grid?!

Not even that, there are as yet no trade negotiation at all with the EU, until March.

[BeElBeeBub]

...Even after all this wasted time we have only made it to the starting grid.....

I thought Brexit was "done" and BJ's "oven ready" deal was served?



Now you are saying that we have only just reached the starting grid?!