Rule breakers.

[Nick]

Nick it is VERY obvious you have zero idea of how opinion polls are carried out.

They don't use water boarding, I know that. 

[papasmurf]

Are, you mean the polls where, for example.
A family of 4 are stopped in the street, mum, dad and 2 early 20 year old children who are rabid woke Remainers. 

Nick it is VERY obvious you have zero idea of how opinion polls are carried out.

[Nick]

Apart from the polls and analyses you mean

Are, you mean the polls where, for example. 
A family of 4 are stopped in the street, mum, dad and 2 early 20 year old children who are rabid woke Remainers. The whole family say yes we are remain voters, mum and dad can't be bothered to state they are actually leave voters because they don't want another argument over dinner. 
So no you don't have a clue how people intended to vote or even less about why. 

You're going to tell me this is far fetched and didn't happen but the reality is that tons of people most likely will have lied to other family members about their intentions knowing full well they'll never find out. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

You have no clue what percentage people listened to propaganda on either side and you have no clue what percentage of people knew they would vote for 10 years before the referendum was even announced. So stop saying Brexit won based on lies, as I've explained above you have no idea at what stage people made their mind up, and Remain lied through their teeth during the campaign.

I will also guarantee I can shoot down any so called data you think you have to prove people were swayed by lies. Give me your best!!

Apart from the polls and analyses you mean

[Nick]

No

The bleeding obvious clues being what your leaver leads had to promise in order to get those votes.  They promised a deal and not the no deal lunacy.  And note I referred to the vast majority of those votes not all of them as you falsely suppose.

Now you might wish to suppose they only promised deals because of some other reason than they knew that promising lunacy would lose them votes but please don't as some might die laughing reading it.

You have no clue what percentage people listened to propaganda on either side and you have no clue what percentage of people knew they would vote for 10 years before the referendum was even announced. So stop saying Brexit won based on lies, as I've explained above you have no idea at what stage people made their mind up, and Remain lied through their teeth during the campaign.

I will also guarantee I can shoot down any so called data you think you have to prove people were swayed by lies. Give me your best!!

[Unlucky4Sum]

You just told SW that basically he can't know what 17 million people voted for and then you told him what they did vote for, something you equally have no clue about. Bit two faced don't you think?

No

The bleeding obvious clues being what your leaver leads had to promise in order to get those votes.  They promised a deal and not the no deal lunacy.  And note I referred to the vast majority of those votes not all of them as you falsely suppose.

Now you might wish to suppose they only promised deals because of some other reason than they knew that promising lunacy would lose them votes but please don't as some might die laughing reading it.

[Nick]

That maybe what YOU voted for but you are not the 17 million and you are not the 14.95 million (a minority) that voted for it in the 2019 election.  And you know full well that the vast majority of those only voted such because they were promised Brexit = leaving with a good trade deal.

A pursuit of 'perfection or nothing' as you appear to advocate is lunacy.  A no deal exit would have been exactly that dropping like a brick UK economy with associated public unrest we narrowly avoided.

You just told SW that basically he can't know what 17 million people voted for and then you told him what they did vote for, something you equally have no clue about. Bit two faced don't you think? 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Thats from a remainers perspective , Im in the camp of no deal is better than a bad deal and thats what the tories have given us so you will have to excuse me if I dont feel lucky .
I do however think the tories would have struggled to even negociate a no deal without giving something away .The whole thing has been a shitshow from the day the tories were given command of both the remain and leave campaigns . . . .
 . . .
We didnt vote to broker a deal , we voted to leave , the 'deal' IMO should have come after

That maybe what YOU voted for but you are not the 17 million and you are not the 14.95 million (a minority) that voted for it in the 2019 election.  And you know full well that the vast majority of those only voted such because they were promised Brexit = leaving with a good trade deal. 

A pursuit of 'perfection or nothing' as you appear to advocate is lunacy.  A no deal exit would have been exactly that dropping like a brick UK economy with associated public unrest we narrowly avoided. 

[Streetwalker]

Quite.  I get sick of this mass delusion that we could have got a 'cake and eat it' Brexit just because some bozo called Johnson said we could.  We were arguably very lucky to have got the deal we got.

Thats from a remainers perspective , Im in the camp of no deal is better than a bad deal and thats what the tories have given us so you will have to excuse me if I dont feel lucky .
I do however think the tories would have struggled to even negociate a no deal without giving something away .The whole thing has been a shitshow from the day the tories were given command of both the remain and leave campaigns .

No we do not know that because it isn't true

A potential road block on the progress of this plan didn't occur because the democratically elected Eu parliament decided not to block it at this stage.  They could at a later stage block what comes out of these further discussions and any of the EU ministers could block it.

They probably won't because it makes sense as long as the further discussions are sensible.

They wont be saying its sensible in 10 years time 

About time far right politics shot itself in the head and crawled back under the rock from where it emerged. There is an inherent flaw in the Dublin agreement, countries on the east and south of europe have to burden the majority of refugees and asylum seekers. These changes address that imbalance. Or we could go back to the good old days where these countries, typically not the most wealthy in Europe, would have just let those people pass straight through to other countries, and so on, until they end up in boats to the UK. In some cases helping them along their way/turn a blind eye. This change relieves that pressure point (a really good thing) and it keeps the process when migrants/asylum seekers can be sent back to the EU country they came from, if those asylum seekers start wandering around.
This is prob why these proposals are so widely supported, by most in the EU. I don't know the nitty gritty, but I presume each country will still manage their borders and carry out their own security checks, those that don't meet the standard wouldn't be let inn, so each EU country is still in total control of their borders.

If EU countries were in total control of their borders how come millions of migrants are wandering around Europe ?

I doubt the Eu would have agreed to that, they don't with other 3rd countries, you thinking that's a ball dropped is to over estimate what the UK could have brokered in the deal. The UK in fairness prob got as good a deal as was possible, with time more barriers will be negotiated away with a give & take approach.

No ?  We are a third country but we are THE  third country . I my overestimate how far we could have pushed the EU but whats for sure is that the tories under played our hand . 
We didnt vote to broker a deal , we voted to leave , the 'deal' IMO should have come after 

[Unlucky4Sum]

 . . .

The Tories have made a pigs ear of it for sure . Sending migrants back to France should have been part of the WA .They dropped the brexit ball .

I doubt the Eu would have agreed to that, they don't with other 3rd countries, you thinking that's a ball dropped is to over estimate what the UK could have brokered in the deal. The UK in fairness prob got as good a deal as was possible, with time more barriers will be negotiated away with a give & take approach.

Quite.  I get sick of this mass delusion that we could have got a 'cake and eat it' Brexit just because some bozo called Johnson said we could.  We were arguably very lucky to have got the deal we got.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Well as we all know (or should ) once anything goes through the plannery stage its a bit more than a proposal and the 'vote' is a mere formality .  . . .

No we do not know that because it isn't true

A potential road block on the progress of this plan didn't occur because the democratically elected Eu parliament decided not to block it at this stage.  They could at a later stage block what comes out of these further discussions and any of the EU ministers could block it.

They probably won't because it makes sense as long as the further discussions are sensible. 

[GerryT]

Well as we all know (or should ) once anything goes through the plannery stage its a bit more than a proposal and the 'vote' is a mere formality . Mass immigration into the EU will be an ongoing crisis for the people of Europe when will Europe say enough ? Some countries like Sweden where right wing parties prop up governments are likely to see turmoil in the coming months . Swedish far-right risks government collapse over EU migration pact – EURACTIV.com

About time far right politics shot itself in the head and crawled back under the rock from where it emerged. There is an inherent flaw in the Dublin agreement, countries on the east and south of europe have to burden the majority of refugees and asylum seekers. These changes address that imbalance. Or we could go back to the good old days where these countries, typically not the most wealthy in Europe, would have just let those people pass straight through to other countries, and so on, until they end up in boats to the UK. In some cases helping them along their way/turn a blind eye. This change relieves that pressure point (a really good thing) and it keeps the process when migrants/asylum seekers can be sent back to the EU country they came from, if those asylum seekers start wandering around.
This is prob why these proposals are so widely supported, by most in the EU. I don't know the nitty gritty, but I presume each country will still manage their borders and carry out their own security checks, those that don't meet the standard wouldn't be let inn, so each EU country is still in total control of their borders.

The Tories have made a pigs ear of it for sure . Sending migrants back to France should have been part of the WA .They dropped the brexit ball .

I doubt the Eu would have agreed to that, they don't with other 3rd countries, you thinking that's a ball dropped is to over estimate what the UK could have brokered in the deal. The UK in fairness prob got as good a deal as was possible, with time more barriers will be negotiated away with a give & take approach.

[Streetwalker]

They are proposals and will be voted on by member states. I would favour these changes which will deal with crisis situations. Those assylum bottle necks can't be delt with by 1 country and this proposal will control the legal flow of these people in dire need. This doesn't change one bit those migrants in one country trying to move to another, as in what was said about the french migrants in boats travelling to the UK, even if these changes are adopted that won't change.

Well as we all know (or should ) once anything goes through the plannery stage its a bit more than a proposal and the 'vote' is a mere formality . Mass immigration into the EU will be an ongoing crisis for the people of Europe when will Europe say enough ? Some countries like Sweden where right wing parties prop up governments are likely to see turmoil in the coming months . Swedish far-right risks government collapse over EU migration pact – EURACTIV.com

"working on ways" like the Rwanda idiot scheme. But the sure fire way of sending them back, as an EU member is now gone. Another brexit truth blown apart.

The Tories have made a pigs ear of it for sure . Sending migrants back to France should have been part of the WA .They dropped the brexit ball .
 

[GerryT]

Not for much longer you wont . The Asylum and migration pact agreed in the EU Parliament last week basically ends that . The EU will tell you how many migrants you will be taking in the future .

Just in case you needed a reminder you and every other country in the EU has lost sovereignty over its borders ,you will take as many as they decide you are going to have 

Asylum and migration: Parliament confirms key reform mandates | News | European Parliament (europa.eu)

They are proposals and will be voted on by member states. I would favour these changes which will deal with crisis situations. Those assylum bottle necks can't be delt with by 1 country and this proposal will control the legal flow of these people in dire need. This doesn't change one bit those migrants in one country trying to move to another, as in what was said about the french migrants in boats travelling to the UK, even if these changes are adopted that won't change.

No we can't but we (banging tories heads together) are working on ways to be able to do so .  What Brexit was about was avoiding being told by Brussels what our immigration policy was going to be . It was warned about but dissmissed as lies and scaremoungering .
Another Brexit truth comes to pass 

"working on ways" like the Rwanda idiot scheme. But the sure fire way of sending them back, as an EU member is now gone. Another brexit truth blown apart.

[Streetwalker]

The EU rule is the Dublin Agreement. Migrants/asylum seekers can be sent back to the country that they first entered the EU. 

Not for much longer you wont . The Asylum and migration pact agreed in the EU Parliament last week basically ends that . The EU will tell you how many migrants you will be taking in the future .

Just in case you needed a reminder you and every other country in the EU has lost sovereignty over its borders ,you will take as many as they decide you are going to have 

Asylum and migration: Parliament confirms key reform mandates | News | European Parliament (europa.eu)

 Now that you're out you can't send them back, sort of ironic as its the total opposite of what brexit was about.

No we can't but we (banging tories heads together) are working on ways to be able to do so .  What Brexit was about was avoiding being told by Brussels what our immigration policy was going to be . It was warned about but dissmissed as lies and scaremoungering .
Another Brexit truth comes to pass