Bring Back Boris?

[Unlucky4Sum]

Inventing the past?

Think that's your bag, reply 115 is your post

My post #114 is I reply to another of your made up versions.

You're wrong, here's YOUR post 115
 


Now I can explain how you are running away from the point at hand but I really can't understand it for you.

But then I suspect you've understood all along how the Brexit out turn we're seeing is nothing like your Leave leads promised and 17 million Leave voters expected it to be

[patman post]

No no, I beat you to it.  George was not a member of this fictional entity you call "The Remain Campaign", so whatever he said, we can pretend it didn't matter, and ONLY need to look at the stuff you arbitrarily decide mattered.  So to sum up, the Leave Campaign were bad bad evil types, and may have unfairly influenced people to vote leave, causing untold catastrophe and carnage (the end is nigh), but people with political power who do not fit your "official" category, did not have any effect at all.  Thanks to your remarkable powers of reason, I have seen the light.  🤣

The Remain Campaign in the 2016 referendum was led by Britain Stronger in Europe, a cross-party lobbying group that was declared as the official "Remain" campaign for the referendum by the Electoral Commission in April 2016.

The problem for the Remain Campaign was overconfidence.

Not one of the 16 or so general pro EU Remain and special interest groups, saw the necessity to combine their efforts into a coordinated campaign.

And in a few ways their confidence appears to have been justified — current opinion polls show it's probable that a proportion of Leave voters simply voted against the government of the day, not the actual proposition...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

[Scott777]

Feel free to show where the Remain campaign included or endorsed gormless George Osborne.

Yes, yes, George did not fit into your selected category of campaigners, and therefore, no one could possibly have listened to his scaremongering.  You have persuaded me using the great powers of your mind.  Also, banging your head against a brick wall can never hurt at all, because no one has officially set up a legal framework called "The Hurty Head Wall Banging Category", which means walls cannot possibly cause any sensations or injuries to the human body.  Give it a try, you won't feel a thing.  😉

[Nick]

Oh look Nick's failing so he's trying to reinvent the past

Now go read your reply 115

The truth is you and others thought it would be really clever to try and dismiss the current bleeding obvious problems with Brexit by lying your arses off saying 'well we all knew that would happen'

You didn't, you leavers from the top down to gutter level just told people it'd be great.  We'd all trade freely.

Well it hasn't turned out like that, the public were misled big time on the economics and it's time for leavers to act like adults and say 'yes we got that wrong'

You might argue that the freedoms, end of free movement, end of member fees and having to take responsibility make the ~4% economic impact and NI issues worth it.  It would be an arguable position but denying we have Brexit problems or denying the public were misled isn't just dishonest, it strongly communicates you don't believe that 'worth it' is arguable.

Inventing the past?

Think that's your bag, reply 115 is your post

My post #114 is I reply to another of your made up versions. 

I never mentioned any recognised leader, but seen as you've said it I'll find you one. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

For those that don't know the truth about Osborne's 'profound economic shock' comment it was all based on this Treasury analysis  

Osborne didn't lie, he really believed we'd be in a desperate crisis within days but he didn't think it through.  He'd told the Treasury to assume we'd maintain the fiscal discipline in place since 2010.  And the Treasury analysts correctly said that post a Leave vote foreign investors would not buy UK government Bonds giving an immediate issue to the government budget (that has for ages relied on borrowing money on the international market through these bonds.  Keeping his fiscal discipline would mean an immediate mini budget with cuts to government programmes triggering a recession and unemployment
 
None of Cameron, the Bank of England or the official Remain campaign endorsed this and over 50 Tory MPs said they'd block any such mini budget.

What gormless George had forgotten was there was another option, the one Mark Carney went for:  just print the money.  In effect a mini budget.

That did of course further devalue the currency, cause inflation to leap and erode real standards of living but such was the lesser of two evils.

But his comment wasn't a lie.

[Unlucky4Sum]

No no, I beat you to it.  George was not a member of this fictional entity you call "The Remain Campaign", so whatever he said, we can pretend it didn't matter, and ONLY need to look at the stuff you arbitrarily decide mattered.  So to sum up, the Leave Campaign were bad bad evil types, and may have unfairly influenced people to vote leave, causing untold catastrophe and carnage (the end is nigh), but people with political power who do not fit your "official" category, did not have any effect at all.  Thanks to your remarkable powers of reason, I have seen the light.  🤣

Feel free to show where the Remain campaign included or endorsed gormless George Osborne.

Feel free to show any Leave lead campaign figure that said any of these things

- 'that £350M a week is a lie'
- 'actually that 'after we leave British businesses will trade freely with the EU' is a lie'
- 'after we leave we will have some difficult years'
- 'we will never get cake and eat it'

I'm betting you'll whinge and whine that such a fair challenge is me being evil.

[Scott777]

Epic fail

Gormless George was never a member of the Remain campaign

No no, I beat you to it.  George was not a member of this fictional entity you call "The Remain Campaign", so whatever he said, we can pretend it didn't matter, and ONLY need to look at the stuff you arbitrarily decide mattered.  So to sum up, the Leave Campaign were bad bad evil types, and may have unfairly influenced people to vote leave, causing untold catastrophe and carnage (the end is nigh), but people with political power who do not fit your "official" category, did not have any effect at all.  Thanks to your remarkable powers of reason, I have seen the light.  🤣

[Unlucky4Sum]

What is the "recognised Remain campaign"?  There was this bloke called Dave, recognised by many as the PM, and he campaigned to remain.  You continue to be dishonest by deflecting from certain campaigners, to only some of the campaigning that you "recognise".  Do you not recognise who Dave was?  Was he just a bloke in a pub?

You've been told.  You were given the link in post 133 and to paraphrase Nick:  I've explained it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Do tell me when you've caught up with the simple facts.

[Unlucky4Sum]

How many times, I NEVER MENTIONED THE PUBLIC BEING TOLD ANYTHING OF THE KIND. I said leavers on here said they would be happy to take the short term hit, for the long term benefits.

Oh look Nick's failing so he's trying to reinvent the past
 
Now go read your reply 115

The truth is you and others thought it would be really clever to try and dismiss the current bleeding obvious problems with Brexit by lying your arses off saying 'well we all knew that would happen'

You didn't, you leavers from the top down to gutter level just told people it'd be great.  We'd all trade freely.

Well it hasn't turned out like that, the public were misled big time on the economics and it's time for leavers to act like adults and say 'yes we got that wrong'

You might argue that the freedoms, end of free movement, end of member fees and having to take responsibility make the ~4% economic impact and NI issues worth it.  It would be an arguable position but denying we have Brexit problems or denying the public were misled isn't just dishonest, it strongly communicates you don't believe that 'worth it' is arguable.

 

[Unlucky4Sum]

How many do you want?

"A vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession" – George Osborne, May 2016


"So my judgement, as home secretary, is that remaining a member of the European Union means we will be more secure from crime and terrorism." – Theresa May, April 2016

Epic fail

Gormless George was never a member of the Remain campaign and May's statement was correct.

[BeElBeeBub]

Are you going to post stuff with absolutely no figures all the time?
Or do you post no proof when you've made it up?

If you have a look at the stats (link below) you will see that the outbound freight levels from ports (both short and deep sea, (eg US, AU's etc are included) is below the level of 2019.

So exports are significantly down (over 10%) from pre brexit levels though imports are near the same level

Some of this will be the lingering pandemic effects which will be hard to untangle from brexit ones at this level.

So it is not unreasonable to suggest higher freight industry revenue and profits are due to an increase in the per unit shipping costs, which every business (apart from the freight industry) will tell you is a bad thing.


 ( https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1140892/port0501.ods )

[Nick]

Oh no no no, these don't count, even though they were influential figures who undoubtedly influenced some voters, but Unlucky4sum says they don't count because, umm, ummm....  😁

I was waiting for that exact response. How could a Chancellor and a Home Secretary be classed as significant?

[Nick]

But you neglected to mention profits are down, or non existent because of delays, extra costs and non-tariff barriers.

Are you going to post stuff with absolutely no figures all the time?
Or do you post no proof when you've made it up?

[Scott777]

What long term benefits? (None are evident yet.)

So you don't think it's beneficial to be separate from the European Superstate, as founded by Nazi Walter Hallstein, and with it's single currency, single European border, single military force?  Oh well, I do recommend you go and live an EU country.  All the best.  Byeeee.

[Scott777]

How many do you want?

"A vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession" – George Osborne, May 2016


"So my judgement, as home secretary, is that remaining a member of the European Union means we will be more secure from crime and terrorism." – Theresa May, April 2016

Oh no no no, these don't count, even though they were influential figures who undoubtedly influenced some voters, but Unlucky4sum says they don't count because, umm, ummm....  😁