I am so sick of Covid

[Scott777]

Some say repeated vaccination encourages Hyperactivation of the immune system resulting in 'Long covid' symptoms for years after the intial infection . Far from being weakened the immune system is  actually going haywire (aka sw covid )

2 Possibilities are weakened immune system (the European Medicines Agency said it is weakened by being overloaded), and Professor Dolores Cahill warned in May 2020, long before the EMA, the possibility of viral interference, something to do with the cytokine storm.  Of course, she was removed from social media cos like me, just a far right conspiracy nut.  😁

[Unlucky4Sum]

 . . .Some say repeated vaccination encourages Hyperactivation of the immune system resulting in 'Long covid' symptoms for years after the intial infection . Far from being weakened the immune system is  actually going haywire (aka sw covid )

Some say all sorts of shit.  So do you have any sources of any provenance for that?

[Unlucky4Sum]

It's such a generalised statement, it's meaningless.  It did not protect anyone if they were already in good health.  Even my parents, who took only the first dose and quit because my mum got shingles, much later got Covid and were both fine.  They were both over 70.  The injection could not possibly protect them, because there was nothing to protect from.

So you base all your rejections of the medical experts on your unscientific observations of just two people?  How stupid.
  
You appear to think only vulnerable people got Covid badly.  Well you're so wrong on that.

[Streetwalker]

I would have been much happier if only vulnerable people had been offered the injection.

Thats pretty much my thoughts on it with hindsight 

  Lockdown was entirely unnecessary

The first one was justified as there where no injections to suppress the desease .How many lives were saved we will never know 

 If you accept one of the issues of repeated vaccination may be a weakened immune system, then you should also consider the effects of stress (government fear program), staying indoors away from sunlight and reduced vitamin D, lack of exercise and fresh air, wearing masks, etc, on immunity.

Is it ?  Some say repeated vaccination encourages Hyperactivation of the immune system resulting in 'Long covid' symptoms for years after the intial infection . Far from being weakened the immune system is  actually going haywire (aka sw covid ) 

[Scott777]

The vaccines massively protected,   

It's such a generalised statement, it's meaningless.  It did not protect anyone if they were already in good health.  Even my parents, who took only the first dose and quit because my mum got shingles, much later got Covid and were both fine.  They were both over 70.  The injection could not possibly protect them, because there was nothing to protect from.

[Scott777]

You seen the death stats?  Seems not

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31december2022/referencetablefeb213.xlsx



Note x indicates zero

The bit that says Age-standardised mortality rate:- unvaccinated = 63.5 , first dose after 21 days = 78.4, and second dose after 6 months = 68.9 , seem to show an increase in mortality after vaccination has taken effect.  Is that what you are trying to show?  🤔 

[Scott777]

Given you can't provide the source of the Scottish definition, it's doubly irrelevant.

The link is to Public Health Scotland.  That's obviously the source.

I suspect it is a general definition for vaccination programs rather than specific to covid, but I could be wrong so let's pretend that is *an* official definition in Scotland of "vaccinated" in relation to COVID.

So what? The ONS define it as "having had one or more doses". As you say definitions can vary. This.is.why studies define the cohorts. What matters the definition used by the study and not the definition some random found ont he internet.

But you didn't provide any definition used by the study.  That's the point.  In absence of that, you do not know what the figures mean.

The definition of "vaccinated" *as defined in the study* is "has had at least one dose of COVID vaccine"

You have provided no link to any such definition.  Where does it say this?

[Scott777]

I dont think anyone (maybe scott ) would argue that the initial vaccine helped us out of lockdown and protected the vunerable people from getting serious infection . But we have moved on from that to boosters and suchlike which have been an absolute nightmare for lots of people .
The vaccines are not a fix all for the general population and should only be used going forward for the vulnerable  who have not had side effects . Everyone else can take their chances which are pretty good

I would have been much happier if only vulnerable people had been offered the injection.  Lockdown was entirely unnecessary, as the Great Barrington Declaration was available.  If you accept one of the issues of repeated vaccination may be a weakened immune system, then you should also consider the effects of stress (government fear program), staying indoors away from sunlight and reduced vitamin D, lack of exercise and fresh air, wearing masks, etc, on immunity.

[Scott777]

So Barry show us that the jab did not protect against infection.  Given that the infections fell drastically with the roll out of vaccines

And, as you'll have to concede infections fell, then you'll have to concede that the number of infectious people fell and so the vaccinations protected many unvaccinated from being infected.

Perhaps the summer gave everyone a dose of vitamin D.  Or did they do less testing?  Or decrease the cycle threshold.

[Scott777]

The jab suppressed the immune system, didn't it?

Exactly.  I always knew it would be a slow process of awakening the slumberers, but we will get there.

[Barry]

Try here

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines#vaccine-effectiveness

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/covid19vaccineeffectivenessestimatedusingcensus2021variablesengland/31march2021to20march2022#vaccine-effectiveness-against-covid-19-hospitalisation-and-mortality

Also, you argue that the current dominant strains are no more deadly that the.flu

The caveat has to be *in the current population* - whose immune systems have now adapted to covid through pripor infection, vaccination or both.

This is how viruses become "less virulent" - it's not the virus that changes, it's us.


I suspect that if we were to take a sample.of the current strains and drop them through a wormhole into 2018, it would be very much more virulent than the flu.

Virus epidemics always follow a similar path. A new strain emerges to  which the population has little immunity. It rips through until there is enough immunity left in the remaining population that it becomes another background annoyance. If we had not found a vaccine, that would have been the path of COVID.  The vaccine allowed us to step.over the high morbidity and mortality phases and go straight to the end game.

Thanks for trying with the links. They are useful but they fail to take into account that the current version of Omicron has a similar IFR as a flu strain, which basically, it now is. However, I did appreciate your "I suspect" expert view of wormholes.

Anyway, I'm spending far too much time on forums these days, so I'll leave it there. Goodbye for now.

[Streetwalker]

You seen the death stats?  Seems not

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31december2022/referencetablefeb213.xlsx



Note x indicates zero

That would seem to back up what I was alluding to . The third booster is a problem in the long term .

[Unlucky4Sum]

I have no idea what Icke says, nor do I have any interest in someone who once said he was Jesus.

The populace were well and truly gaslit by the government and the gullible took it hook line and sinker.
My son had several jabs and boosters and has had Covid twice. My daughter had jabs and boosters got Covid, so did grandson. Whilst infected, grandson coughed on me, licked me (would you believe) and kissed me but I did not catch it.
Infections fell, did they? That means it was not effective. If it was effective infections would have stopped, right?

I'm still trying to find peer reviewed death stats for jabbed and unjabbed, which take into account that the current version of Omicron has a similar IFR as a flu strain, which basically, it now is.
https://www.ft.com/content/e26c93a0-90e7-4dec-a796-3e25e94bc59b
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/in-england-covid-is-now-less-deadly-than-the-flu-but-what-about-in-the-us-100016672.html

Then the government started those silly Covid passes for jabbed people. You couldn't go to some places without it, even though they knew that you could still get infected and pass it on! It was all a total illogical con using the "safe and effective" mantra which helped injure lots of young people (men in particular) killing some.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer either, so don't even start. I've had all the usual vaccines, and so have our children and their children. The Covid jab was not a vaccine, though, was it?

I hope this talk of the Chinese cough is not too upsetting to Borchester.

The mistake you are making is to say that because no vaccine ever offers instant, permanent, 100% protection you can then assert that vaccines did not protect at all.  
  
Would you similarly conclude that seat belts don't protect at all because some people still die in road accidents?  Of course you won't.
 
But idiot comments like 'did not protect' are exactly what the Ickists like to have the gullible believe.  Just look at those mortality figures for those that did not get vaccinated or did not have the needed second and booster jabs.  People died because arseholes went round saying shit like 'vaccines are killing more than the virus' and your favourite of 'did not protect'

The vaccines massively protected, their role in suppressing the pandemic for over a year until the reduced lethality Omicron brought herd immunity was vital to save thousands and thousands of lives, the NHS and in no small way our whole society.
  

  

[BeElBeeBub]

I have no idea what Icke says, nor do I have any interest in someone who once said he was Jesus.

The populace were well and truly gaslit by the government and the gullible took it hook line and sinker.
My son had several jabs and boosters and has had Covid twice. My daughter had jabs and boosters got Covid, so did grandson. Whilst infected, grandson coughed on me, licked me (would you believe) and kissed me but I did not catch it.
Infections fell, did they? That means it was not effective. If it was effective infections would have stopped, right?

I'm still trying to find peer reviewed death stats for jabbed and unjabbed, which take into account that the current version of Omicron has a similar IFR as a flu strain, which basically, it now is.
https://www.ft.com/content/e26c93a0-90e7-4dec-a796-3e25e94bc59b
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/in-england-covid-is-now-less-deadly-than-the-flu-but-what-about-in-the-us-100016672.html

Then the government started those silly Covid passes for jabbed people. You couldn't go to some places without it, even though they knew that you could still get infected and pass it on! It was all a total illogical con using the "safe and effective" mantra which helped injure lots of young people (men in particular) killing some.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer either, so don't even start. I've had all the usual vaccines, and so have our children and their children. The Covid jab was not a vaccine, though, was it?

I hope this talk of the Chinese cough is not too upsetting to Borchester.

Try here

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines#vaccine-effectiveness

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/covid19vaccineeffectivenessestimatedusingcensus2021variablesengland/31march2021to20march2022#vaccine-effectiveness-against-covid-19-hospitalisation-and-mortality

Also, you argue that the current dominant strains are no more deadly that the.flu

The caveat has to be *in the current population* - whose immune systems have now adapted to covid through pripor infection, vaccination or both.

This is how viruses become "less virulent" - it's not the virus that changes, it's us.


I suspect that if we were to take a sample.of the current strains and drop them through a wormhole into 2018, it would be very much more virulent than the flu.

Virus epidemics always follow a similar path. A new strain emerges to  which the population has little immunity. It rips through until there is enough immunity left in the remaining population that it becomes another background annoyance. If we had not found a vaccine, that would have been the path of COVID.  The vaccine allowed us to step.over the high morbidity and mortality phases and go straight to the end game.

[Barry]

So Barry show us that the jab did not protect against infection.  Given that the infections fell drastically with the roll out of vaccines

And, as you'll have to concede infections fell, then you'll have to concede that the number of infectious people fell and so the vaccinations protected many unvaccinated from being infected.

PS That Mr Icke you so love to parrot isn't going to help you here

I have no idea what Icke says, nor do I have any interest in someone who once said he was Jesus.

The populace were well and truly gaslit by the government and the gullible took it hook line and sinker.
My son had several jabs and boosters and has had Covid twice. My daughter had jabs and boosters got Covid, so did grandson. Whilst infected, grandson coughed on me, licked me (would you believe) and kissed me but I did not catch it.
Infections fell, did they? That means it was not effective. If it was effective infections would have stopped, right?

I'm still trying to find peer reviewed death stats for jabbed and unjabbed, which take into account that the current version of Omicron has a similar IFR as a flu strain, which basically, it now is.
https://www.ft.com/content/e26c93a0-90e7-4dec-a796-3e25e94bc59b
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/in-england-covid-is-now-less-deadly-than-the-flu-but-what-about-in-the-us-100016672.html

Then the government started those silly Covid passes for jabbed people. You couldn't go to some places without it, even though they knew that you could still get infected and pass it on! It was all a total illogical con using the "safe and effective" mantra which helped injure lots of young people (men in particular) killing some.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer either, so don't even start. I've had all the usual vaccines, and so have our children and their children. The Covid jab was not a vaccine, though, was it?

I hope this talk of the Chinese cough is not too upsetting to Borchester.