Be Afraid , be very afraid

[Nick]

It is still bites and more than any other breed. (That is the expert and data result, as per usual I really don't care about your personal experience, it isn't relevant.)  I like dogs too much to own one. But I have for most of my life until the last few years, been around or looked after dogs, some of them nasty (expletive deleted.)

[papasmurf]

You've pulled out a couple of BC bites, and your link states that BC bites are not serious, just nips. The norm is that they don't bite.
Now you're a dangerous dog expert are you? Amazing seeing you've never owned a dog.

It is still bites and more than any other breed. (That is the expert and data result, as per usual I really don't care about your personal experience, it isn't relevant.)  I like dogs too much to own one. But I have for most of my life until the last few years, been around or looked after dogs, some of them nasty (expletive deleted.) 

[Nick]

Nick, I have been around dogs for most of my life. (More often than not dangerous ones, kennels would not take.) Also farm working dogs of any breed can be "tribal." If they accept you as family they are usually OK. No comment from you addresses the fact that your experience of Border Collies does not reflect what experts and the data state.

You've pulled out a couple of BC bites, and your link states that BC bites are not serious, just nips. The norm is that they don't bite. 
Now you're a dangerous dog expert are you? Amazing seeing you've never owned a dog. 

[papasmurf]

So the answer you are looking for is no, therefore you have never been responsibly for a dogs training or bringing it up from being a puppy, which are the important and formative years. All of my children were brought up with Collies, so that is 4 children x 16 years: 64 years with not one single incident.

Nick, I have been around dogs for most of my life. (More often than not dangerous ones, kennels would not take.) Also farm working dogs of any breed can be "tribal." If they accept you as family they are usually OK. No comment from you addresses the fact that your experience of Border Collies does not reflect what experts and the data state.

[Nick]

That is merely YOUR experience. It does not reflect the experience of the entire country.

Behaviour of the Border Collie (bordercollierescue.org)

These situations are remarkably common with companion Border Collies, often being mistaken for aggressive behaviour. In the majority of cases these 'attacks' would not occur if the dog understood its position in the family pecking order.

Bites from Border Collies, under these circumstances, are not likely to be serious but they will be painful and may draw blood. The experience can be traumatic to adults and children alike, and as Border Collies nip and bite more children than any other breed, it's worth bearing in mind.

Rather than answer my latest post, you chose to quote an earlier post twice. 

[patman post]

posted by mistake

[papasmurf]

Utter tosh, we've had Border Collies in my family for nearly 60 years, every one of them were a perfect job. Long haired, short haired and Blue Merles, great family pets. If you'd ever had one you'd know something about them.

That is merely YOUR experience. It does not reflect the experience of the entire country.

Behaviour of the Border Collie (bordercollierescue.org)

These situations are remarkably common with companion Border Collies, often being mistaken for aggressive behaviour. In the majority of cases these 'attacks' would not occur if the dog understood its position in the family pecking order.

Bites from Border Collies, under these circumstances, are not likely to be serious but they will be painful and may draw blood. The experience can be traumatic to adults and children alike, and as Border Collies nip and bite more children than any other breed, it's worth bearing in mind.
 

[Nick]

I have looked after numerous breeds of dog over the years, looking after them whilst the owners were on holiday or too busy to walk them. (Most of them were because kennels would not take them.)  No breed of dog is 100% trustworthy.
The farmer I used to do part time work for over 20 years, had various breeds of dog. The one I was very careful around was a border collie.

As for border collies google has numerous incidents. Just a sample:-


'Blood squirting everywhere' after dog attacks woman in Swansea park - Wales Online


Police hunt for Border Collie owner after young girl bitten in Northampton park - Northants Live


Police ask for dog owner to come forward after incident in Henley-in-Arden | Warwickshire Police

So the answer you are looking for is no, therefore you have never been responsibly for a dogs training or bringing it up from being a puppy, which are the important and formative years. All of my children were brought up with Collies, so that is 4 children x 16 years: 64 years with not one single incident. 

[papasmurf]

Face it, this is just another issue you've suddenly noticed

It isn't case of suddenly noticed, it has been getting steadily worse for over a decade.

[patman post]

I am not arguing with the data. You can if you like:-


Rising fatalities, injuries, and NHS costs: dog bites as a public health problem | The BMJ


Hospital episode data for England5 also reveal an upward trend in the number of attendances for dog related injuries in the past 15 years. There has been an 88% increase in attendances, from 4699 in 2007 to 8819 in 2021-22. Growing concern about dog related attacks have prompted media reports across the UK.67

Face it, this is just another issue you've suddenly noticed and are now obsessing over in your usual manner.

Media reports follow the fashion. The trends in stories can be tracked. That's why they're so useful in forum debates...

[papasmurf]

, BUT, with so many dogs in the country, you seem to be exaggerating a problem when there are so few serious incidents 

I am not arguing with the data. You can if you like:-


Rising fatalities, injuries, and NHS costs: dog bites as a public health problem | The BMJ


Hospital episode data for England5 also reveal an upward trend in the number of attendances for dog related injuries in the past 15 years. There has been an 88% increase in attendances, from 4699 in 2007 to 8819 in 2021-22. Growing concern about dog related attacks have prompted media reports across the UK.67

[patman post]

Border collie? They can be vicious. I am very surprised you think otherwise. There is no safe breed of dog.

Yes and No. There are around 13 million pet dogs in UK, and 34% of UK households own a dog.

https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/pet-ownership-statistics-uk/

I'm convinced care needs to be taken with dogs around children, BUT, with so many dogs in the country, you seem to be exaggerating a problem when there are so few serious incidents — and those that happen appear to be the results of unsuitable animals, conditions or owners.

I grew up with dogs, mostly mongrels (cookups and mutts, locally), so I've had experience of ours and other people's...

[papasmurf]

Have you ever owned a BC? Or any dog for that matter?

I have looked after numerous breeds of dog over the years, looking after them whilst the owners were on holiday or too busy to walk them. (Most of them were because kennels would not take them.)  No breed of dog is 100% trustworthy.
The farmer I used to do part time work for over 20 years, had various breeds of dog. The one I was very careful around was a border collie.

As for border collies google has numerous incidents. Just a sample:-


'Blood squirting everywhere' after dog attacks woman in Swansea park - Wales Online


Police hunt for Border Collie owner after young girl bitten in Northampton park - Northants Live


Police ask for dog owner to come forward after incident in Henley-in-Arden | Warwickshire Police

[Nick]

You were still lucky. Personal experience does not cover the generality nationally.

Have you ever owned a BC? Or any dog for that matter?

[papasmurf]

Utter tosh, we've had Border Collies in my family for nearly 60 years, every one of them were a perfect job. Long haired, short haired and Blue Merles, great family pets. If you'd ever had one you'd know something about them.

You were still lucky. Personal experience does not cover the generality nationally.