This is why we shouldn't rush things...

[GerryT]

None of this applies come 2021.

Firstly the withdrawal agreement is a legally binding agreement. Second Johnson changer May's document where the backstop was only in play if FTA talks failed, Johnson made it permanent from day 1, so NI stays in the CU until there is some other mechanism for taking it out. This was prob the biggest own goal by Johnson in a career of spectacular own goals, as there will most likely never be such a means to take NI out.

Yes the UK could break it's signed agreement, is that what your suggesting. Is it the wild west that you favour.

[Nick]

I think the idea is if a final product is shipped to an end user in NI then it isn't subject to EU oversight.



So an individual buying a 3kw vacuum cleaner or incandescent light bulb would be ok



But but a hardware store on the border buying a pallet of the above might not.



Of course the issue isn't so much if a particular shipment is or isn't subject to EU regulations and/or tariffs - it's the fact that there needs to be some mechanism to divide the trade into two streams (NI/UK only and NI/EU possible).  



It's highly likely the extra faff involved in qualifying for the NI/UK only will outweigh any benefits.

None of this applies come 2021.

[BeElBeeBub]

But we love our bowler hats down south, with matching orange sash  

There is an opinion that once a product can move into NI then it can very easily move to Southern Ireland, this would mean it needs to meet all EU requirements. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I think the idea is if a final product is shipped to an end user in NI then it isn't subject to EU oversight.



So an individual buying a 3kw vacuum cleaner or incandescent light bulb would be ok



But but a hardware store on the border buying a pallet of the above might not.



Of course the issue isn't so much if a particular shipment is or isn't subject to EU regulations and/or tariffs - it's the fact that there needs to be some mechanism to divide the trade into two streams (NI/UK only and NI/EU possible).  



It's highly likely the extra faff involved in qualifying for the NI/UK only will outweigh any benefits.

[GerryT]

I think there is a provision, cutting across all of this, about goods that plausibly could be NI only



So a shipment of orange order bowler hats would be considered "UK only" and thus free from any EU regulations and provisions



But a pallet of shamrock hats would need to pay duty and fully comply with all EU regs.



The problem is that the need to distinguish between and apply different regimes to different goods requires checks in the Irish sea and paperwork at both ends.



Right now the box of bowler hats can just be sent to Belfast and there be no need for extra paperwork or checks.



But afterwards there will need to be paperwork to show the bowler hats are NI only and checks to make sure the box contains bowler, and not shamrock, hats.



I'm the case of state aid, if the government wanted to subsidise the Kent based manufacture of shamrock hats, they would be bound by state aid rules.  If the government wanted to cut VAT on all hats to 0% it would also be bound by EU state aid rules unless that provision didn't apply to NI.

But we love our bowler hats down south, with matching orange sash  

There is an opinion that once a product can move into NI then it can very easily move to Southern Ireland, this would mean it needs to meet all EU requirements. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[BeElBeeBub]

I think there is a provision, cutting across all of this, about goods that plausibly could be NI only



So a shipment of orange order bowler hats would be considered "UK only" and thus free from any EU regulations and provisions



But a pallet of shamrock hats would need to pay duty and fully comply with all EU regs.



The problem is that the need to distinguish between and apply different regimes to different goods requires checks in the Irish sea and paperwork at both ends.



Right now the box of bowler hats can just be sent to Belfast and there be no need for extra paperwork or checks.



But afterwards there will need to be paperwork to show the bowler hats are NI only and checks to make sure the box contains bowler, and not shamrock, hats.



I'm the case of state aid, if the government wanted to subsidise the Kent based manufacture of shamrock hats, they would be bound by state aid rules.  If the government wanted to cut VAT on all hats to 0% it would also be bound by EU state aid rules unless that provision didn't apply to NI.

[GerryT]

Thread on a small part of the WA the UK agreed to that was missed in the rush to get it "done"



https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1194996780414504960?s=09">https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/stat ... 04960?s=09">https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1194996780414504960?s=09



TLDR, the entire UK is perpetually bound by EU state aid rules for any measure (a subsidy, nationalisation, tax break etc) that has any footprint in NI.



So a UK wide VAT cut, subsidising a UK company with sales in NI etc are all caught.



This is why rushing to passing the legislation through parliament was a bad idea.

I think it gets worse than that, As NI is in all practical senses remaining in the EU, any UK company selling product into NI will have to ensure their product meets EU standards, I can see this one being tested in courts.

[BeElBeeBub]

Thread on a small part of the WA the UK agreed to that was missed in the rush to get it "done"



https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1194996780414504960?s=09">https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/stat ... 04960?s=09">https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1194996780414504960?s=09



TLDR, the entire UK is perpetually bound by EU state aid rules for any measure (a subsidy, nationalisation, tax break etc) that has any footprint in NI.



So a UK wide VAT cut, subsidising a UK company with sales in NI etc are all caught.



This is why rushing to passing the legislation through parliament was a bad idea.