Wagner boss taken out???

[Nick]

Yeah but the FSB/KGB and Ukrainian intelligence services are way better at tracking people down, and when they do the the target is likely to end up dead, rather than simply wishing they were!

I have to wonder if the rest of the passengers knew he was onboard? I suspect they would have got off if they'd known, especially the crew. 

[BeElBeeBub]

HMRC does not seem to be able to do that even the evidence is handed to them on plate.

Yeah but the FSB/KGB and Ukrainian intelligence services are way better at tracking people down, and when they do the the target is likely to end up dead, rather than simply wishing they were! 

[papasmurf]

The more money you take with you, the easier it is to trace you. 

HMRC does not seem to be able to do that even the evidence is handed to them on plate.

[BeElBeeBub]

Given how many mega tax avoiders there are, he does not need to leave wealth behind.

The more money you take with you, the easier it is to trace you. The more you leave your money with mates the easier it is to trace you. 

I'm not saying a hypothetical YP living in hiding would be a pauper, but his lifestyle would need to be significantly curtailed.

Allied to the fact that he would also lose all influence and political power as well, it's a very much last ditch strategy.

Turn the question around. What gain is there to the Russian state in facilitating YP faking his death? What do they gain? Why would they cooperate? 

[papasmurf]

And Pappy is child free, been mortgage free for thirty years and is always slipping abroad for reasons never fully explained, so he should know

Borchester stop being a bloody idiot. I don't "slip abroad." I go to Brittany between  a month and six weeks a year because it is far cheaper than a holiday in the UK and much cheaper than a holiday in Cornwall. You always have to bloody personalise things. I am not like you "I am alright Jack and eff everyone else." I care about the 14 million and rising in precarity in Britain, you and Nick don't.

[Borchester]

Given how many mega tax avoiders there are, he does not need to leave wealth behind.

And Pappy is child free, been mortgage free for thirty years and is always slipping abroad for reasons never fully explained, so he should know

[papasmurf]

Faking your own death requires significant sacrifice, you have to leave behind significant amounts of wealth 

Given how many mega tax avoiders there are, he does not need to leave wealth behind.

[BeElBeeBub]

He has many enemies, far more than those two.

I bet the list is as long as both your arms. 

But the list of one's it's worth faking your own death to avoid? 

Much shorter. 

Faking your own death requires significant sacrifice, you have to leave behind significant amounts of wealth and all personal connections. Apart from the personal implications this also means any use you had to your higher ups is gone. 

YP was useful to Putin because of YP's personal connections to both his own commanders in Wagner but also Wagner clients and business partners in Africa, Middle East etc.

If Russia was helping fake YP's death (which it would have to be given the state has confirmed his death) it would be forgoing those contacts by "killing" him. In fact YP's value to Putin would be significantly reduced by of faking his death. 

In this case I think the most obvious explanation is that the man who led a failed coup against a man notorious for offing people who betray him was killed by the man he betrayed. 

[papasmurf]

Thing is, if YP has faked his death you have to ask why.

The obvious answer is to escape retribution, and there are only two major threats. Ukraine and Putin.

He has many enemies, far more than those two.

[BeElBeeBub]

Thing is, if YP has faked his death you have to ask why.

The obvious answer is to escape retribution, and there are only two major threats. Ukraine and Putin. 

If the threat was Ukraine, why go to the trouble of faking his own death? Why not just live in Russia with high security? 

The more likely reason would be to avoid Putin's wrath. Being thought dead is a good way to avoid people trying to kill you. 

In which case why would the Russian state be colluding with YP to fool the Russian state into thinking he was dead.?

Maybe he has sympathisers who he hoped would help him fake his death, but he'd have to bank on non-sympathetic agencies getting involved. Leaving a body, even a body double would be a huge risk, especially in today's world of DNA (let's discount clones eh) 

If YP was going to fake his death, it would need to be with no body. So a crash over water, sunken ship, crash with such intense fire it burned the bodies beyond ID. 

If anything, bringing the plane down (relatively) near Moscow would be the move someone would make if they wanted to be sure they could recover the body to ID it and make sure he hadn't given them the slip. 

I'd say he's dead, and as Nick said, it's not a surprise. 

[papasmurf]

Update - it's now confirmed he was on the plane that crashed.

The problem being confirmed by whom.

[HDQQ]

As yet there's no confirmation that this dangerous man was actually on the plane and even speculation that he could have been on a second plane that didn't crash. Assuming that agents of the Russian regime shot the plane down, Prigozhin will either become a martyr among his loyalists (if dead), or a furious 'wounded bear' set on revenge (if still alive).

Update - it's now confirmed he was on the plane that crashed.

[Streetwalker]

If he didn't know he was going to be taken out he must be the only one who didn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

The only suprise with this is that it took so long .  Question now is who controls his mercenaries ?

[Nick]

If he didn't know he was going to be taken out he must be the only one who didn't. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733