Ministers skip UN meeting on disability rights,

[Streetwalker]

He is a parent and like all of us, pathetically grateful if they even return his phone calls

Oh ,I thought they were ficticious kids , a bit like the new van on my drive . 

[Borchester]

I hope he is recieving a brown envelope from them every month as a thank you

He is a parent and like all of us, pathetically grateful if they even return his phone calls

[Streetwalker]

One of my mates has all his six children down as company directors.at £12569 a time

I hope he is recieving a brown envelope from them every month as a thank you 

[Borchester]

I'm talking PAYE in that case, those unfortunates don't have the avoidance options like we do

Well, if they are on wages then they have all those I feel your pain lefties to look out for them and that can't be bad.

Most of my working life I had a regular job that paid for the butcher and baker. For the important things in life such as beer and school fees, I relied on sidelines for which I was paid in cash and saw no need to trouble HMRC

[Nick]

Generally speaking yes . But as we know (cough) many of us have expenses in running our businesses that mean we pay very little income tax . Show me someone earning earning £40K who is actually paying  £5600 and I'll show you someone who needs a new accountant .

I'm talking PAYE in that case, those unfortunates don't have the avoidance options like we do

[Borchester]

Generally speaking yes . But as we know (cough) many of us have expenses in running our businesses that mean we pay very little income tax . Show me someone earning earning £40K who is actually paying  £5600 and I'll show you someone who needs a new accountant .

One of my mates has all his six children down as company directors.at £12569 a time

[Streetwalker]

Income tax should be a flat rate: why should someone earning £20k a year pay £1600 in income tax and someone on £40k pay £5600, 3.5 times more, when they only earn twice as much. If you earn double you pay double.

Generally speaking yes . But as we know (cough) many of us have expenses in running our businesses that mean we pay very little income tax . Show me someone earning earning £40K who is actually paying  £5600 and I'll show you someone who needs a new accountant .

[Nick]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit

I imagine Nick is cheering that the workshy benefit cheat has had £700 support allowance and £500 of housing allowance cut because she accidentally put down she worked 16 hours instead of 15 1/2.

As a side note this is a classic case of how the benefit system is a massive trap partly because of this type of step change cut off.

Say this lady had done brilliantly at her job and her employer offered her extra hours, it would be daft for her to take them as it would cost her £1,200 a month to work an extra few hours.  How on earth is that an incentive?

It's notable the right are very sure that high rate taxes will stop rich people working - "a 50p top rate would stop someone working hard!  Why should that banker work harder when 50p in every extra pound they earn is taxed!!"

Yet they are strangely silent when the marginal tax rate on low earners can be over 75% and even over 100% in some cases (like above).

Income tax should be a flat rate: why should someone earning £20k a year pay £1600 in income tax and someone on £40k pay £5600, 3.5 times more, when they only earn twice as much. If you earn double you pay double. 

[BeElBeeBub]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit

I imagine Nick is cheering that the workshy benefit cheat has had £700 support allowance and £500 of housing allowance cut because she accidentally put down she worked 16 hours instead of 15 1/2.

As a side note this is a classic case of how the benefit system is a massive trap partly because of this type of step change cut off.

Say this lady had done brilliantly at her job and her employer offered her extra hours, it would be daft for her to take them as it would cost her £1,200 a month to work an extra few hours.  How on earth is that an incentive?

It's notable the right are very sure that high rate taxes will stop rich people working - "a 50p top rate would stop someone working hard!  Why should that banker work harder when 50p in every extra pound they earn is taxed!!"

Yet they are strangely silent when the marginal tax rate on low earners can be over 75% and even over 100% in some cases (like above).

[papasmurf]

What if, instead of people with no arms and legs being distressed by threatening to remove their benefits of they don't show they can't work, it was a horse?

You seem to have more sympathy for a horse being slapped that for people with disabilities.

Nick is a typical I am alright Jack callous bastard Tory.

[BeElBeeBub]

Good, the more hostile the better.

What if, instead of people with no arms and legs being distressed by threatening to remove their benefits of they don't show they can't work, it was a horse?

You seem to have more sympathy for a horse being slapped that for people with disabilities.

As I pointed out the amount of PIP fraud is tiny and smaller than the amount unjustly denied. 

You would rather increase the already bigger number of people put through genuine hardship than contemplate that a handful of people might get something they aren't entitled to? And let's not forget anyone defrauding the disability benefits system might well get caught and have to pay it a back (assuming someone shops them over the 20 years they boast about it). Anyone who is unfairly denied isn't going to get that time back. 

[Nick]

I do acknowledge that, but unlike you I do not assume it is in the millions.
What you are totally ignorant of is the hostile environment towards benefit claimants by the Government, The DWP, DWP contractors and far too many people like you who are in total ignorance of that harshness and also the benefits system.
I abhor benefit frauds and tax evaders.
Unlike people on internet forums who bleat about frauds but do bugger all about it, I do report frauds, but not anonymously and not until I am 100% sure of my facts. I also have a 100% success rate.
Such frauds are often organised, and there is often collusion involved by employers. (That have mainly been stopped by the introduction of Universal Credit.)

The there is this which you and Borchester seem blissfully unaware of:-


Universal Credit and your claimant commitment - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


Your claimant commitment
When you claim Universal Credit you will need to accept your claimant commitment.
Your claimant commitment will set out what you have agreed to do to prepare for and look for work, or to increase your earnings if you are already working. It will be based on your personal circumstances and will be reviewed and updated on an ongoing basis. Each time it is updated, you will need to accept a new claimant commitment to keep receiving Universal Credit.
The claimant commitment is your record of the responsibilities that you have accepted in return for receiving Universal Credit, and the consequences of not meeting them.
Your Universal Credit payments may be cut if you don't meet your responsibilities. This is called a sanction.
You can view your latest claimant commitment online. You will also be able to update your progress on your goals using that account.
If a medical professional has said you might have less than 12 months to live, you will not need a claimant commitment.

Good, the more hostile the better. 

[Nick]

Let's say those 2 people are typical of fraudsters and the average fraud is £30k a year.

The total lost to fraud is around £40m a year.
That's a bit over 1,300 fraudsters.
Out of 6m people.

For every fraudster, there are literally 4,500.genuine claimants.

Again, we in Britain woukd rather see an orphan starve than risk giving a free meal to a fat kid.

Where do you get £60 million? And not everyone is going to be £20K.  Total benefit fraud is in the Billions, and as previously said, that's just what they know about.

[Borchester]

Borchester I am NOT interested in your anecdotes either, and you are lying about me yet again. (JSA stopped a long time ago.)

Hard words Pappy. I think that you are a cowardly hypocrite who spent much of his life destroying the lives of innumerable vulnerable people, but do I say that ? No, I like to think that my manners are better than that

[BeElBeeBub]

Smurf flatly refuses to acknowledge that there are people that do not want to work, and will do everything in their powers from doing so. You're wasting your time trying to educate him, he obviously sees them all as hard done too.

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1793343/benefits-cheat-caught-prosecuted-riding-a-horse/amp


https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1793343/benefits-cheat-caught-prosecuted-riding-a-horse/amp

£60K and that's just 2 people.

Let's say those 2 people are typical of fraudsters and the average fraud is £30k a year. 

The total lost to fraud is around £40m a year.
That's a bit over 1,300 fraudsters. 
Out of 6m people.

For every fraudster, there are literally 4,500.genuine claimants. 

Again, we in Britain woukd rather see an orphan starve than risk giving a free meal to a fat kid.