GE 2024

[patman post]

Three [out of context?] Reform comments noted:

•Ian Gribbin, who is standing for election in Bexhill and Battle, said Winston Churchill was "abysmal", instead praising Vladimir Putin.

In a series of posts from 2022 on the Unherd website - seen by the BBC - the candidate also claimed women were the "sponging gender", suggesting they should be "deprived of healthcare".

In January 2022, he wrote: "Men pay 80 per cent of tax. Women take out 80 per cent of expenditures.

"Square that inequality first by depriving women of healthcare until their life expectancies are the same as men, Fair's fair."

In December 2021, he said female soldiers "almost made me wretch [sic]", addin that they were a "total liability".

But a spokesperson for Reform UK said the remarks were not "endorsements". They said the remarks were "written with an eye to inconvenient perspectives and truths", adding that his comments about women were "tongue in cheek".
https://www.gbnews.com/politics/reform-uk-candidate-hitler-comments

•Richard Tice
@TiceRichard: Actually Daniel, his Dad is on his deathbed and he misspoke under intense personal pressure.

Perhaps Westminster should focus on our economic policy to save taxpayers tens of billions & stop enriching the banks

Instead of juvenile gotcha identity politics

•Nigel Farage on standing for parliament: 
"Richard Tice probably does want me to replace him. But do I want to be an MP? Do I want to spend every Friday for the next five years in Clacton?"
The Times 11/02/2024

Ian Gribbin (Reform candidate for Bexhill and Battle who claimed that Britain needs to exorcise the cult of Churchill) is supported by the party leader, who alleges the current PM "doesn't understand our history and culture".

Perhaps the only positive of Reform is that every vote it gains lessens the chances of the current government being returned to power at the coming election...

[BeElBeeBub]

The only people who take them out of context are those looking to put them down .Us of the right are used to it ,its as if the right and the left of politics speak a different language sometimes but its mostly stuff that doesn't really matter or something someone said like when they were 14 .

The labour party must employ a lot of people to go through the oppositions on line history looking for anything they can twist into a put down . Its then published as they see it which others then take as gospel .  You know there was a woman (member of the public apparently ) on the radio yesterday that said she would never vote for any Farage party as he used to be in the National Front and the presenter just let it slide .Its this sort of underhandedness that boils my piss .

Anyway yes I would vote for him . Not for him in particular but Im voting Reform and there is nothing about him that would stop me
His views are an opinion I don't share. As Ive previously alluded , you cant change history and his version of it asks too many questions for me .

Not entirely sure what he said (what I have read ) means he admires Putin . Another case of a word being used that changes the context ,in this case 'admires ' .What he said was "Putin understands the bonds that create more stable societies  "  Thats an opinion he has probably changed to be fair given the events of the last two years .

In general though I like candidates that don't just follow the party line , that have something to say that gives you a picture of what they are about. But that doesn't mean we agree with everything they say ,it would be a bit boring if we did .

I think the bit where he said "if only the West had politicians of his class" indicates a certain admiration wouldn't you say?

Now to be fair these words were apparently on the eve of the invasion and it would be interesting to see what his views on Putin are now, especially given how badly Putin misjudged and botched the whole affair.

But it is interesting how certain views tend to shoal together 

Obviously he is pro Brexit anti eu
He clearly bought into the admiration of Putin as recently as 2022
I bet he is anti lgbt rights
Obviously anti immigration.
I bet he is anti ulez, anti net zero
I bet he doesn't like heat pumps or windfarms.
I suspect he is pro trump

Now alot is speculation - but those views seem to go together   

It always puzzled me why people who were pro Brexit tend to be anti net zero, ulez etc and anti LGBT.  On the face of it those 3 things have nothing to do with each other?  So why together?

[Streetwalker]

You have to pity the poor reform candidates who are always getting taken out of context.

Seems to happen alot for them.

I am interested in why you would vote for him if you could?

Do you share his views?

Do you think the UK was wrong to put itself against Hitler?  Should we have allied ourselves?

Do you too admire Putin and yearn for our politicians to be more.like him?

Or are you voting for him simply to "own the libs"?

The only people who take them out of context are those looking to put them down .Us of the right are used to it ,its as if the right and the left of politics speak a different language sometimes but its mostly stuff that doesn't really matter or something someone said like when they were 14 .

The labour party must employ a lot of people to go through the oppositions on line history looking for anything they can twist into a put down . Its then published as they see it which others then take as gospel .  You know there was a woman (member of the public apparently ) on the radio yesterday that said she would never vote for any Farage party as he used to be in the National Front and the presenter just let it slide .Its this sort of underhandedness that boils my piss . 

Anyway yes I would vote for him . Not for him in particular but Im voting Reform and there is nothing about him that would stop me 
His views are an opinion I don't share. As Ive previously alluded , you cant change history and his version of it asks too many questions for me .

Not entirely sure what he said (what I have read ) means he admires Putin . Another case of a word being used that changes the context ,in this case 'admires ' .What he said was "Putin understands the bonds that create more stable societies  "  Thats an opinion he has probably changed to be fair given the events of the last two years .

In general though I like candidates that don't just follow the party line , that have something to say that gives you a picture of what they are about. But that doesn't mean we agree with everything they say ,it would be a bit boring if we did .

[BeElBeeBub]

Now this is where I fall out with people who try to find fault with right wing parties ,when they make stuff up and take what people say way out of context and then compound it by saying the blokes personal view is the 'party line' . 

The guy hasn't said anything that would suggest he was supporting Hitler . He said we as a country would be better off had we not gone to war ,thats not supporting Hitler thats supporting or rather suggesting hundreds of thousands of British and allied forces  lives would have been saved in the 1940's and possibly led to a better UK today . Its a view ,we cant change history but we can discuss it and learn from it and don't see why that particular view should be shut down ,not that its a topic that comes up much .

In fact he has now apologised ,was hurt that his comments have been taken out of context (By some) saying he is grandparents were in fact Russian jews and  with that information on board I would support him if I lived in Hastings

You have to pity the poor reform candidates who are always getting taken out of context.

Seems to happen alot for them.

I am interested in why you would vote for him if you could?

Do you share his views?

Do you think the UK was wrong to put itself against Hitler?  Should we have allied ourselves?

Do you too admire Putin and yearn for our politicians to be more.like him?

Or are you voting for him simply to "own the libs"?

[Streetwalker]

But we WOULD be

The war left us bankrupt and the yanks rolling in it.

Had Halifax won tbe day and Churchill lost, Britain would most definitely blnit be tge shitfest it is today.

Admittedly as a six foot three blonde blue eyed aryan descendent of a father of similar build my viewpoint on this might not align with certain bankers and Zblacl Lives wouldn't matter as we wouldn't have needed the Windrush generation to replace our own killed in the fighting but overall, economically, we'd have been far better off

Of course we'd need to deal with the problem left after russia had been crushed but hey ....

Its a view JoG but not sure how the World would have turned out had Hitler taken control of Europe and probably beyond . What of China , the Commonwealth ,Japan ?  Too many questions to say we would have been better off or even if the madman Hitler had kept his word which is another debate .

[Streetwalker]

It is, as you say, "an opinion".

And yes, there were many voices at the time who argued the same point.  But as you point out we have the benefit of hindsight. Holding that opinion now is a very different proposition to holding it in 1939.

Interestingly an official reform spokesperson trotted out more or less that exact justification (that it was a widely held opinion at the time), which does rather set it as the official party line.

Farage avoided the question and blathered about the Greens dropping candidates for anti-Semitic views (as if supporting Hitler isn't pretty anti-Semitic).

Tice did point out they had not had time to vet Thier candidates - which is fair enough. The test now will be if they reject him from the party asap or not.  Pro Hitler views were not his only controversial posts - he had some choice comments about women (again to be fair, in full context they may have been young in cheek. They were so extreme it is difficult to believe they are actual views).

But paired with his Hitler comments and praise of Putin, it is hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Now this is where I fall out with people who try to find fault with right wing parties ,when they make stuff up and take what people say way out of context and then compound it by saying the blokes personal view is the 'party line' .  

The guy hasn't said anything that would suggest he was supporting Hitler . He said we as a country would be better off had we not gone to war ,thats not supporting Hitler thats supporting or rather suggesting hundreds of thousands of British and allied forces  lives would have been saved in the 1940's and possibly led to a better UK today . Its a view ,we cant change history but we can discuss it and learn from it and don't see why that particular view should be shut down ,not that its a topic that comes up much .

In fact he has now apologised ,was hurt that his comments have been taken out of context (By some) saying he is grandparents were in fact Russian jews and  with that information on board I would support him if I lived in Hastings 

[papasmurf]

The french, of course, fucked incoming trucks over from day 1, 

Because Britain was no longer in the EU, Britain is not being treated any differently that and other non-EU country.

[johnofgwent]

I'm sure similar goods entering Australia would be handled in a similar way.  Which is exactly what Brexit voters voted for.

But relative to pre Brexit times (truck would have been waved through) this is massively more disruptive.

So it costs more, choice is limited etc.

The french, of course, fucked incoming trucks over from day 1, while enjoying continued status as if we were still in the EU for two years.
F@@@ them

[papasmurf]

But as usual no evidence.

Nick the evidence had been widely reported and is public domain, it is a VERY long list. Involving increased costs for importing/exporting to and from the EU. Trade agreements that on close inspection are laughable. Medical supplies/prescription drug shortages that have Brexit as one of the factors. Farming in crisis due to Brexit, fishing still has serious problems due to Brexit.
That you are not aware or blinkered is your problem.
Just a sample.

Brexit's Lasting Economic and Financial Damage Looks Inescapable - Bloomberg


Brexit border risks loom for government during an election year | Institute for Government


Brexit analysis - Office for Budget Responsibility (obr.uk)

[BeElBeeBub]

Good, I'm glad that he was checked thoroughly, how do you think he would have been handled entering Australia for example?
It also looks like the delays atm are due to strikes in Calais, being part of the EU would make no difference when the French decide to strike, which is a lot.

I'm sure similar goods entering Australia would be handled in a similar way.  Which is exactly what Brexit voters voted for.

But relative to pre Brexit times (truck would have been waved through) this is massively more disruptive.

So it costs more, choice is limited etc.

[johnofgwent]

But of a change of tack but given several posters here seem keen on Reform (and also the recent outrage over Sunak's attitude to the D Day commemorations), I wondered what their take was on reports that the Reform candidate for Bexhill and Battle, has previously stated

"Britain would be in a far better state today had we taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality.... "

Or his praise of Putin

"[He] understands the bonds that create more stable societies; the hypocrisy of the West is preposterous as we stare in the face daily the enormous economic equalities created by our deluded neo liberal ideas... ...if only the West had politicians of his class"

But we WOULD be

The war left us bankrupt and the yanks rolling in it.

Had Halifax won tbe day and Churchill lost, Britain would most definitely blnit be tge shitfest it is today.

Admittedly as a six foot three blonde blue eyed aryan descendent of a father of similar build my viewpoint on this might not align with certain bankers and Zblacl Lives wouldn't matter as we wouldn't have needed the Windrush generation to replace our own killed in the fighting but overall, economically, we'd have been far better off

Of course we'd need to deal with the problem left after russia had been crushed but hey ....

[Nick]

Going swimmingly.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/10/brexit-italian-driver-lorry-uk-border-post-sevington

Good, I'm glad that he was checked thoroughly, how do you think he would have been handled entering Australia for example?
It also looks like the delays atm are due to strikes in Calais, being part of the EU would make no difference when the French decide to strike, which is a lot.

[Nick]

No they aren't in fact they are getting worse.

But as usual no evidence.

[BeElBeeBub]

Strange how as we come out of the Covid years, a lot of the Brexit issues are gone. For example the lack of truck drivers, and all the delays at Dover.

Going swimmingly.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/10/brexit-italian-driver-lorry-uk-border-post-sevington

[BeElBeeBub]

The candidate had an opinion that the UK would have been better off had it  stayed neutral in WW2 . Much the same as some MP's in 1940 , Foreign secretary Lord Halifax and a number of Churchill's war cabinet were of the same view .That's not to say what the candidate said is excusable especially knowing today what they didn't know in 1940 as to what Hitlers plans were .

It is, as you say, "an opinion".

And yes, there were many voices at the time who argued the same point.  But as you point out we have the benefit of hindsight. Holding that opinion now is a very different proposition to holding it in 1939.

Interestingly an official reform spokesperson trotted out more or less that exact justification (that it was a widely held opinion at the time), which does rather set it as the official party line. 

Farage avoided the question and blathered about the Greens dropping candidates for anti-Semitic views (as if supporting Hitler isn't pretty anti-Semitic).

Tice did point out they had not had time to vet Thier candidates - which is fair enough. The test now will be if they reject him from the party asap or not.  Pro Hitler views were not his only controversial posts - he had some choice comments about women (again to be fair, in full context they may have been young in cheek. They were so extreme it is difficult to believe they are actual views).

But paired with his Hitler comments and praise of Putin, it is hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.