GE 2024

[papasmurf]

Strange how as we come out of the Covid years, a lot of the Brexit issues are gone.

No they aren't in fact they are getting worse.

[Streetwalker]

But of a change of tack but given several posters here seem keen on Reform (and also the recent outrage over Sunak's attitude to the D Day commemorations), I wondered what their take was on reports that the Reform candidate for Bexhill and Battle, has previously stated

"Britain would be in a far better state today had we taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality.... "

Or his praise of Putin

"[He] understands the bonds that create more stable societies; the hypocrisy of the West is preposterous as we stare in the face daily the enormous economic equalities created by our deluded neo liberal ideas... ...if only the West had politicians of his class"

The candidate had an opinion that the UK would have been better off had it  stayed neutral in WW2 . Much the same as some MP's in 1940 , Foreign secretary Lord Halifax and a number of Churchill's war cabinet were of the same view .That's not to say what the candidate said is excusable especially knowing today what they didn't know in 1940 as to what Hitlers plans were .

Still......

Tice did remark that given the shortness of time he had to vet candidates they were not able to do that as they would have liked . At the end of the day nobody has to vote for him and probably won't given his views . 

[BeElBeeBub]

But of a change of tack but given several posters here seem keen on Reform (and also the recent outrage over Sunak's attitude to the D Day commemorations), I wondered what their take was on reports that the Reform candidate for Bexhill and Battle, has previously stated 

"Britain would be in a far better state today had we taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality.... "

Or his praise of Putin 

"[He] understands the bonds that create more stable societies; the hypocrisy of the West is preposterous as we stare in the face daily the enormous economic equalities created by our deluded neo liberal ideas... ...if only the West had politicians of his class"

[BeElBeeBub]

I know one industry that has been helped by Brexit!

A friend specialises in cross border trade litigation.  Things like arguing about the exact tariff classification of goods or whether or not a certain national law contravenes trade deal rules.

He's seen a massive rise in his work from companies having to deal with the new UK/EU relationship.

This guy knows a more about cross border commerce than any Brexiter you care to mention and is benefitting financially from Brexit and still thinks it's a massive steaming pile of shit.

[srb7677]

Strange how as we come out of the Covid years, a lot of the Brexit issues are gone. For example the lack of truck drivers, and all the delays at Dover.

The 600,000 legal migrants let in by the government last year alone might have something to do with the latter.

And the fact that long delays at Dover are not making the news does not mean they are not happening. Though it was always likely to get less bad eventually as more businesses decided that it was too much hassle to export, whilst the rest got their heads round all the added bureaucracy and paperwork a bit better,

[Nick]

Still banging the Brexit drum I see. Rather disappointing considering that it does not seem to have been a stellar success. I suppose you think they did it wrong?

Strange how as we come out of the Covid years, a lot of the Brexit issues are gone. For example the lack of truck drivers, and all the delays at Dover. 

[srb7677]

As kids people do some daft things,ask prince Harry he dressed up as a nazi so your point is well Ermm pointless.

I think him supporting trump is a mistake but nowhere approaching the magnitude of the worlds No 1 power having as a serving  president a dotard and certainly no friend to this country and an opponent who is a loud mouthed crooked liar who wouldn't recognise the truth if it was written in letters ten foot high.

Regards his time as an MEP he stood on a ticket of exposing the flaws of the European project and from the perspective of those who voted leave there were many.

So now those who are in the remain camp continue to portray him as a villain and brexit a failure.

Brexit didn't fail the failure was that those in all the main parties never accepted a democratic result along with large parts of the media and civil service.

Instead they adopted a stalling strategy along with portraying so many who voted leave as uneducated,the fall of the red wall has shown the displeasure of many who are far from the uneducated they were supposed to be.

Starmer may well be our next pm but it will be a hollow victory as more and more of those eligible sit on their hands and don't bother to vote and will be in effect a minority govt which is bad news for democracy.

Still banging the Brexit drum I see. Rather disappointing considering that it does not seem to have been a stellar success. I suppose you think they did it wrong?

[Streetwalker]

Fair point but he has then made a habit of associating with the far right fringes of European and American politics since.
I don't envy the Americans choice.  There is no doubt that Biden is part his prime - but he is nowhere near the "dotard" trump and his acolytes make him out to be.  Just because he is over 80 doesn't mean he's not capable.  Ridley Scott is 86 and is still successfully directing major motion pictures. Trump is far from a spring chicken himself at 77 and is exhibiting clear signs of mental degradation.

But it comes down to a choice between 2 old.men.

One of them is an experienced politician who genuinely seems like a decent human being.

The other is a serial con artist who tried to stage a coup and openly talks about doing it again.

There is no contest. Anyone politician who actively supports him automatically disqualifies themselves as unfit (cough Truss)

Note that is different from the pragmatic view that "we have to work with whoever is POTUS"

LOL far right fringes . Define far right . 

[BeElBeeBub]

As kids people do some daft things,ask prince Harry he dressed up as a nazi so your point is well Ermm pointless.

Fair point but he has then made a habit of associating with the far right fringes of European and American politics since.

I think him supporting trump is a mistake but nowhere approaching the magnitude of the worlds No 1 power having as a serving  president a dotard and certainly no friend to this country and an opponent who is a loud mouthed crooked liar who wouldn't recognise the truth if it was written in letters ten foot high.

I don't envy the Americans choice.  There is no doubt that Biden is part his prime - but he is nowhere near the "dotard" trump and his acolytes make him out to be.  Just because he is over 80 doesn't mean he's not capable.  Ridley Scott is 86 and is still successfully directing major motion pictures. Trump is far from a spring chicken himself at 77 and is exhibiting clear signs of mental degradation.

But it comes down to a choice between 2 old.men. 

One of them is an experienced politician who genuinely seems like a decent human being.

The other is a serial con artist who tried to stage a coup and openly talks about doing it again.

There is no contest. Anyone politician who actively supports him automatically disqualifies themselves as unfit (cough Truss)

Note that is different from the pragmatic view that "we have to work with whoever is POTUS"

[Streetwalker]

We have documented contemporary reports of him sing
ing Hitler youth songs as a teenager as well other anecdotes about him liking the fact his initials matched the National Front.  Fairly unsavoury (admiring not admitting, Hitler, autocorrect - sorry)


He never did his job. MEPs are elected to shape and scrutinise EU legislation. He didn't do that. Instead of taking the chance to put right the things he saw wrong he preferred to do nothing and complain about it.

And he did misappropriate expenses. You can't use the "I was only embezzling to show how easy it is to embezzle" defense. He used EU funds to employ someone doing national UKIP work. I'm fairly sure he would rail against a French MEP using money in part from the UK tax payer to find a french party.

That was trump's defense, one the prosecution took apart and the jury sided with.

He paid off a pornstar (whom he claims.he didn't have an affair with - I note he didn't take the stand as he would not be able to lie about that under path) using off the books tactics.  There was a mountain of evidence that the entire edifice of reimbursement was designed to conceal the payments and not merely a coincidence that they paid Micheal Cohen the exact amount to cover him for "legal work".  They falsified records to do that. That's a misdemeanor crime.

The contentious issue (one he could have won on to be honest) was if doing the above crime in order to affect the 2020 election elevated the crime to a felony.

But the above is not the big stuff. If that was his only crime, then maybe.

But he also has several pending cases for mishandling classified material. Remember his primary charge against Clinton was her mishandling of classified material, for which he claimed she should be locked up.

His mishandling was several orders of magnitude worse.  The *only* reason this hasn't gone to trail yet is because he has a judge who he appointed and who has previously been censured for misapplying the law in his favour overseeing the case. She is without doubt slow rolling this in the hope that it will get painted beyond the election and he can then use his presidential power to grant himself immunity.

And we haven't even touched on him attempting a coup.

This is the man NF is actively supporting - not just maintaining a "we have to work with whoever POTUS is approach which is understandable.

There is no point in me repeating what both nick and Cromwell have written but would add he didn't complain in fact I think he supported one particular French MEP who was diverting her allowances to her own party funds much the same  as he was  
You know the EU were set to have a purge on such goings on in 2011 , after seeing how widespread the financial abuse was , It would have implicated so many within  the Brussels bubble that they decided to leave it  well alone . Even today just months before the next MEP elections its reported in Europe that 25% of current MEP's are implicated in judicial cases of corruption, harassment and embezzlement .Whats their excuse ?  
Nothing to do with us now thank you but it seems the gravy train continues . 

[cromwell]

We have documented contemporary reports of him sing
ing Hitler youth songs as a teenager as well other anecdotes about him liking the fact his initials matched the National Front.  Fairly unsavoury (admiring not admitting, Hitler, autocorrect - sorry)

As kids people do some daft things,ask prince Harry he dressed up as a nazi so your point is well Ermm pointless.

I think him supporting trump is a mistake but nowhere approaching the magnitude of the worlds No 1 power having as a serving  president a dotard and certainly no friend to this country and an opponent who is a loud mouthed crooked liar who wouldn't recognise the truth if it was written in letters ten foot high.

Regards his time as an MEP he stood on a ticket of exposing the flaws of the European project and from the perspective of those who voted leave there were many.

So now those who are in the remain camp continue to portray him as a villain and brexit a failure.

Brexit didn't fail the failure was that those in all the main parties never accepted a democratic result along with large parts of the media and civil service.

Instead they adopted a stalling strategy along with portraying so many who voted leave as uneducated,the fall of the red wall has shown the displeasure of many who are far from the uneducated they were supposed to be.

Starmer may well be our next pm but it will be a hollow victory as more and more of those eligible sit on their hands and don't bother to vote and will be in effect a minority govt which is bad news for democracy.

[Nick]

We have documented contemporary reports of him sing
ing Hitler youth songs as a teenager as well other anecdotes about him liking the fact his initials matched the National Front.  Fairly unsavoury (admiring not admitting, Hitler, autocorrect - sorry)


He never did his job. MEPs are elected to shape and scrutinise EU legislation. He didn't do that. Instead of taking the chance to put right the things he saw wrong he preferred to do nothing and complain about it.

And he did misappropriate expenses. You can't use the "I was only embezzling to show how easy it is to embezzle" defense. He used EU funds to employ someone doing national UKIP work. I'm fairly sure he would rail against a French MEP using money in part from the UK tax payer to find a french party.

That was trump's defense, one the prosecution took apart and the jury sided with.

He paid off a pornstar (whom he claims.he didn't have an affair with - I note he didn't take the stand as he would not be able to lie about that under path) using off the books tactics.  There was a mountain of evidence that the entire edifice of reimbursement was designed to conceal the payments and not merely a coincidence that they paid Micheal Cohen the exact amount to cover him for "legal work".  They falsified records to do that. That's a misdemeanor crime.

The contentious issue (one he could have won on to be honest) was if doing the above crime in order to affect the 2020 election elevated the crime to a felony.

But the above is not the big stuff. If that was his only crime, then maybe.

But he also has several pending cases for mishandling classified material. Remember his primary charge against Clinton was her mishandling of classified material, for which he claimed she should be locked up.

His mishandling was several orders of magnitude worse.  The *only* reason this hasn't gone to trail yet is because he has a judge who he appointed and who has previously been censured for misapplying the law in his favour overseeing the case. She is without doubt slow rolling this in the hope that it will get painted beyond the election and he can then use his presidential power to grant himself immunity.

And we haven't even touched on him attempting a coup.

This is the man NF is actively supporting - not just maintaining a "we have to work with whoever POTUS is approach which is understandable.

Haven't got the time to fully respond but your point about MEP's. 
An MEP is elected to do the bidding of the demographic of people that voted them in. In Farage's case that was to disrupt the EU and get us out, his political life's work. Unless you think that the people that voted him in were under the misapprehension that he was pro-EU?

[BeElBeeBub]

Well we know some people don't like the bloke but Ive seen nothing that you could call unsavoury

We have documented contemporary reports of him sing
ing Hitler youth songs as a teenager as well other anecdotes about him liking the fact his initials matched the National Front.  Fairly unsavoury (admiring not admitting, Hitler, autocorrect - sorry)

The only thing he has been elected for is an MEP with a mandate to get us out of the EU . So I guess he did do his job

He wasn't loose with his allowances in the EU , he made a point of taking everything he could and exposing it as how easy it was to spread it around in other areas , like using it in the campaign to leave the EU which they were not very happy about . His argument was others use EU money to promote the EU so why shouldn't he use it against them as that is what he was elected to do . He questioned their democratic process and not surprisingly it wasn't a road they wanted to go down so no further action was taken against him

He never did his job. MEPs are elected to shape and scrutinise EU legislation. He didn't do that. Instead of taking the chance to put right the things he saw wrong he preferred to do nothing and complain about it.

And he did misappropriate expenses. You can't use the "I was only embezzling to show how easy it is to embezzle" defense. He used EU funds to employ someone doing national UKIP work. I'm fairly sure he would rail against a French MEP using money in part from the UK tax payer to find a french party.

He supports Trump ,so what ? Trump is the republican nominee ,if its good enough for millions of Americans why not . Personally I think its all pretty petty stuff with regard the porn star payments being put through the books
 

That was trump's defense, one the prosecution took apart and the jury sided with.

He paid off a pornstar (whom he claims.he didn't have an affair with - I note he didn't take the stand as he would not be able to lie about that under path) using off the books tactics.  There was a mountain of evidence that the entire edifice of reimbursement was designed to conceal the payments and not merely a coincidence that they paid Micheal Cohen the exact amount to cover him for "legal work".  They falsified records to do that. That's a misdemeanor crime.

The contentious issue (one he could have won on to be honest) was if doing the above crime in order to affect the 2020 election elevated the crime to a felony. 

But the above is not the big stuff. If that was his only crime, then maybe.

But he also has several pending cases for mishandling classified material. Remember his primary charge against Clinton was her mishandling of classified material, for which he claimed she should be locked up.

His mishandling was several orders of magnitude worse.  The *only* reason this hasn't gone to trail yet is because he has a judge who he appointed and who has previously been censured for misapplying the law in his favour overseeing the case. She is without doubt slow rolling this in the hope that it will get painted beyond the election and he can then use his presidential power to grant himself immunity.

And we haven't even touched on him attempting a coup.

This is the man NF is actively supporting - not just maintaining a "we have to work with whoever POTUS is approach which is understandable.

[Nick]

Well we know some people don't like the bloke but Ive seen nothing that you could call unsavoury

The only thing he has been elected for is an MEP with a mandate to get us out of the EU . So I guess he did do his job

He wasn't loose with his allowances in the EU , he made a point of taking everything he could and exposing it as how easy it was to spread it around in other areas , like using it in the campaign to leave the EU which they were not very happy about . His argument was others use EU money to promote the EU so why shouldn't he use it against them as that is what he was elected to do . He questioned their democratic process and not surprisingly it wasn't a road they wanted to go down so no further action was taken against him

Dont know what your suggesting 'admitted Hitler in his youth'

He supports Trump ,so what ?  Trump is the republican nominee ,if its good enough for millions of Americans why not . Personally I think its all pretty petty stuff with regard the porn star payments being put through the books but yes I would agree the septics should be able to find a better president than either the former one or the current one for that matter .

I'll be surprised if he gets elected . He is a party leader though , Starmer and Sunak don't do much either . Good local MP's tend to be non cabinet members ,but we will see how Farage gets on , hopefully

We are dealing with Europhiles here and they see any slight on the EU as personal. You do know we are not allowed an opinion. 

[Streetwalker]

I mean we know quite a lot about Farage that is unsavoury.

We know that when he is elected he doesn't do his job and instead spends his time manufacturing sound bites to raise his profile.

We know he is somewhat loose with his allowances and financials (great combination with Westminster's expenses culture)

We know there are longstanding claims he admitted Hitler in his youth.

And we know he endorses and actively supports a convicted felon and obviously unsuitable candidate for the office of US president.

I guarantee if the people of Clacton elect him as their MP he will do absolutely zero for them and spend his days promoting himself.

Well we know some people don't like the bloke but Ive seen nothing that you could call unsavoury

The only thing he has been elected for is an MEP with a mandate to get us out of the EU . So I guess he did do his job

He wasn't loose with his allowances in the EU , he made a point of taking everything he could and exposing it as how easy it was to spread it around in other areas , like using it in the campaign to leave the EU which they were not very happy about . His argument was others use EU money to promote the EU so why shouldn't he use it against them as that is what he was elected to do . He questioned their democratic process and not surprisingly it wasn't a road they wanted to go down so no further action was taken against him 

Dont know what your suggesting 'admitted Hitler in his youth'

He supports Trump ,so what ?  Trump is the republican nominee ,if its good enough for millions of Americans why not . Personally I think its all pretty petty stuff with regard the porn star payments being put through the books but yes I would agree the septics should be able to find a better president than either the former one or the current one for that matter .

I'll be surprised if he gets elected . He is a party leader though , Starmer and Sunak don't do much either . Good local MP's tend to be non cabinet members ,but we will see how Farage gets on , hopefully