Gaza

[Nick]

I believe you overruling them when they did so after you broke the rules yourself was the primary reason for their departure.

And you would be wrong, I only ever did a couple of Modding bits, one of which was to ban Thomas for abusing the MODS.
The issue started because one of the MODS deleted a members account without even discussing it, the other issue was that I (the owner) allowed Smurf back onto the forum.
NONE OF WHICH IS ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS.

[Nick]

Mandela in his early days was a freedom fighter against oppression, somewhat akin to the French resistance in world war 2. Of course the apartheid regime called him a terrorist, as did the Germans the French resistance.

As for Gandhi being responsible for so many deaths.....laughable. And why are you trying to derail threads on your own forum all the time? Almost invariably with some alternate reality rubbish. Because nothing you have just said has anything remotely to do with Gaza. Notice that everyone else is ignoring this bullshit exchange? Back when you had mods they'd have stepped in to stop this. I believe you overruling them when they did so after you broke the rules yourself was the primary reason for their departure.

Perhaps if you insist on such thread derailments, would you object if I brought up the subject of the place of origami in Japanese history?

But seriously, if you are not going to respect your own forum, dont expect anyone else to.

If the forum admin is going to go around derailing any thread he feels like, then I will F@@@ off back to the other forum and abandon this place for another couple of months. Which will create the ideal conditions for one of your yes men - Deppity Dawg - to return since he will no longer have to worry about me rubbishing the Daily Mail every time he quotes it.

But if you drive all the ones who disagree with you away by attacking them with idiotic points that are totally off topic and derailing thread after thread that they participate in, all you'll have left is a bunch of right wingers all agreeing with each other, which will get very boring very quickly and this place will die.

If you cannot even respect your own rules in regards to thread derailment what is the point of having any?

I may have mentioned Gandhi first but only to quote something he said that has relevance to the Israeli-Hamas situation. Ever since when you have tried to turn this into a debate about how Mandela and Gandhi were supposedly terrorists, none of which has anything the F@@@ to do with Gaza.

If you want to argue that various unlikely people were terrorists, obey your own fucking rules and show some respect for your own forum and start a separate thread about it. And leave the rest of us here to debate Gaza.

If you are not capable of that then you can shove this forum up your arse and I am out of here. And no, I have not been drinking, so think of another cheap shot if you must.

The biggest problem with this forum is you, frankly. You don't respect your own rules. And you didnt respect your own mods when they tried to enforce them.

I'm done here for a while. At least the other forum has mods and an area where rules are adhered to and enforced.

If I try to debate something there I tend not to have to put up with mods and admins trying to turn it into a debate about something completely different.

I would suggest that you learn what derailment is Steve, and I will also remind you that it was you who brought Gandhi into this thread as a halo of all that is good, learn your history.

But let us not forget that in the usual tit for tat killings, the atrocious Israeli death count already appears to be surpassed by Gazan civilian deaths.

Didn't that Gandhi guy once say that an eye for an eye just makes everyone blind?

The fact that I then equated Gandhi and his instrumentation in partition, which caused the deaths of over 200 thousands people, sees you bringing Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy and Deppity Dawg  into the mix is pathetic. If you can't see the link then you are blind, perhaps the deaths of Indians isn't on a par with Palestinian or Jewish deaths in your mind.

Feel free to flounce off Steve, you've done it many times before when someone disagrees with you.

[srb7677]

I said Gandhi was a form of terrorist, his decisions caused terror and the deaths of upwards of 200,000 people. If someone causes terror they are a terrorist, I note that you don't dispute Mandela!

Mandela in his early days was a freedom fighter against oppression, somewhat akin to the French resistance in world war 2. Of course the apartheid regime called him a terrorist, as did the Germans the French resistance.

As for Gandhi being responsible for so many deaths.....laughable. And why are you trying to derail threads on your own forum all the time? Almost invariably with some alternate reality rubbish. Because nothing you have just said has anything remotely to do with Gaza. Notice that everyone else is ignoring this bullshit exchange? Back when you had mods they'd have stepped in to stop this. I believe you overruling them when they did so after you broke the rules yourself was the primary reason for their departure. 

Perhaps if you insist on such thread derailments, would you object if I brought up the subject of the place of origami in Japanese history?

But seriously, if you are not going to respect your own forum, dont expect anyone else to.

If the forum admin is going to go around derailing any thread he feels like, then I will F@@@ off back to the other forum and abandon this place for another couple of months. Which will create the ideal conditions for one of your yes men - Deppity Dawg - to return since he will no longer have to worry about me rubbishing the Daily Mail every time he quotes it.

But if you drive all the ones who disagree with you away by attacking them with idiotic points that are totally off topic and derailing thread after thread that they participate in, all you'll have left is a bunch of right wingers all agreeing with each other, which will get very boring very quickly and this place will die. 

If you cannot even respect your own rules in regards to thread derailment what is the point of having any?

I may have mentioned Gandhi first but only to quote something he said that has relevance to the Israeli-Hamas situation. Ever since when you have tried to turn this into a debate about how Mandela and Gandhi were supposedly terrorists, none of which has anything the F@@@ to do with Gaza.

If you want to argue that various unlikely people were terrorists, obey your own fucking rules and show some respect for your own forum and start a separate thread about it. And leave the rest of us here to debate Gaza. 

If you are not capable of that then you can shove this forum up your arse and I am out of here. And no, I have not been drinking, so think of another cheap shot if you must.

The biggest problem with this forum is you, frankly. You don't respect your own rules. And you didnt respect your own mods when they tried to enforce them.

I'm done here for a while. At least the other forum has mods and an area where rules are adhered to and enforced.

If I try to debate something there I tend not to have to put up with mods and admins trying to turn it into a debate about something completely different.

[morayloon]

For Christ's sake don't flounce off Barry. Moray is even nutter at the other place

I aim to please!!!

[morayloon]

I'm done with you. Goodbye Moray.

Oh dear! Was it something that I said?  

https://youtu.be/_8Y9AIl3G_8

[Nick]

But just because I called you out on your utter idiocy, does not make me pissed. Like I said, I have not had a drink for months and have no intention of apologising for anything. So the cheap shots just cheapen you. If you are seriously going to try and pass Gandhi off as a frigging terrorist, then expect to be laughed at and not taken seriously. This thread is not about Gandhi anyway. So if you want to try and pass Mandela, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Jesus H Christ, Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy off as terrorists, then I might be so bold as to suggest another thread for the purpose.

This thread is about Gaza, Israel and Hamas. And I don't think anyone here disputes that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

I said Gandhi was a form of terrorist, his decisions caused terror and the deaths of upwards of 200,000 people. If someone causes terror they are a terrorist, I note that you don't dispute Mandela!

[srb7677]

You have a history of posting whilst pissed and then apologising afterwards, if the cap fits!!

But just because I called you out on your utter idiocy, does not make me pissed. Like I said, I have not had a drink for months and have no intention of apologising for anything. So the cheap shots just cheapen you. If you are seriously going to try and pass Gandhi off as a frigging terrorist, then expect to be laughed at and not taken seriously. This thread is not about Gandhi anyway. So if you want to try and pass Mandela, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Jesus H Christ, Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy off as terrorists, then I might be so bold as to suggest another thread for the purpose.

This thread is about Gaza, Israel and Hamas. And I don't think anyone here disputes that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

[Borchester]

I'm done with you. Goodbye Moray.

For Christ's sake don't flounce off Barry. Moray is even nutter at the other place

[Barry]

The only people who have declared the innocence of Israel are Israel's allies. Says it all really.
One thing that bothers me is that you cannot see the plight of the Palestinians' and I wonder: do you stay in the US? The falling hook, line and sinker for Israeli propaganda would explain that, and your 'head in the sand' attitude,

I'm done with you. Goodbye Moray. 

[Streetwalker]

Do you count Israel as a democracy? A country which operates an apartheid system? I heard today how the IDF arrest children as young as 12 for minor incidents and hold them in prisons. On the other hand the settlers are free to carry weapons and kill Palestinians with impunity.
The rule of law obviously doesn't stretch to Israel, a country that is carrying out war crimes on an almost daily basis. If you are calling Hamas a terrorist organisation you cannot blindly accept that Israel is a pacifist, freedom loving country. Their actions since 7th October says different

Yes Israel is a democracy .

The accusations of apartheid come mainly from western left wing human rights watch groups who take no account of the situation on the West Bank and have been in the main dismissed as security measures . 

Kids need teaching a lesson , locking up the little feckers  for a few hours is something we should be copying . 

But no I dont think Israel is shining light of freedoms . Its a country in the arse end of the world surrounded by those that would see its extermination given half a chance . Given the choice of living in any country in that region Im picking Israel every time , you ?

[morayloon]

Hamas are a proscribed terrorist organisation for a reason. They don't tell the truth.
They can speak if they like, but no one has to believe them. Except the BBC and you, apparently. The BBC are still trying to come to terms with their dangerous mistake of regurgitating Qatar and Hamas lies, which resulted in International protests, based on false information.
They need to take more care.

The only people who have declared the innocence of Israel are Israel's allies. Says it all really. 
One thing that bothers me is that you cannot see the plight of the Palestinians' and I wonder: do you stay in the US? The falling hook, line and sinker for Israeli propaganda would explain that, and your 'head in the sand' attitude,

[morayloon]

Would you like to suggest what is a "Proportionate response" to the Simchat Torah Pogrom of 7th October?

I would say there isn't one. Israel need to wipe out their Hamas enemy as they are an existential threat.

And will that sort out the problem? Because of Israel's OTT response there will be a new generation of radicalised Palestinians. Killing Hamas people is one thing, killing innocent civilians is another more heinous crime.

[morayloon]

Your use of the term genocide is:
A. Incorrect
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
B. emotive nonsense.

Not so.
A. Is Correct as defined. The war aim is exactly to kill as many Palestinians as they possibly can and to destroy any semblance of a Palestinian State,  The carpet bombing and excessive missile launches, resulting in thousands of deaths is evidence of that.
B. You should open your eyes!!!

Francis Boyle, a professor of international law, testified in 2013 that "The Palestinians have been the victims of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide." He argued that: For over the past six and one-half decades, the Israeli government and its predecessors in law – the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs – have ruthlessly implemented a systematic and comprehensive military, political, religious, economic, and cultural campaign with the intent to destroy in substantial part the national, ethnical, racial, and different religious group (Jews versus Muslims and Christians) constituting the Palestinian people

and this from page 5
Given the seemingly permanent nature of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, some human rights experts, including Israeli historian Ilan Pappé, have warned of an "incremental genocide" of Palestinians and the ultimate destruction of Palestinians as a national group

From page 8
prominent Israeli politicians have publicly called for action against the Palestinian people that unequivocally meets the definition of genocide under the 1948 Convention. For instance, in February 2008, Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defense minister, declared that increasing tensions between the Israelis  and Palestinians in the Gaza Strip could bring on themselves what he called a shoah, or holocaust,

Also page 8
Israeli Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked posted a statement on Facebook in June 2014 claiming that "the entire Palestinian people is the enemy" and called for the destruction of Palestine, "including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure." Her post also called for the killing of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes."

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background%20on%20the%20term%20genocide%20in%20Israel%20Palestine%20Context.pdf
I see the link is unavailable: censored because of its contents?  Googling "Genocide Of The Palestinian People" should get you to the article though.

[morayloon]

Incidentally, I didn't misrepresent you, you just need to learn English comprehension.

Now you are trying to victim blame the murdered in a Hamas inspired pogrom by suggesting they were "settlers". How can they be regarded as settlers, when that land has never been occupied by Palestinians?
And, don't forget, Israel made a very painful and unpopular withdrawal from Gaza in 2005. They left the borders open for trade, supplies and everything was OK for a while. It was called a "land for peace" deal.
The Gazans got their land. Then Hamas were voted in by the Gazans and started shooting rockets into Israel.
Israel then closed the borders until the rockets stopped.
You see the Gazans got their land, but they were not able to live in peace with their neighbours.

You have been misrepresenting me since you started posting on this thread. My comprehension is fine. but yours? Well, suffice to say your understanding leaves a lot to be desired.
The land they are building on was Palestinian territory. Building so close to the Strip is clear provocation. Arming the settlers and allowing them to get away with murder, while imprisoning Palestinian minors for throwing stones is very provocative. 
Here's an article by an Israeli (it may be behind a paywall, but you can subscribe by paying £1 for a month)  https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/opinion/6227783/israel-gaza-conflict-2023-palestine-avigail-abarbanel-opinion/

The Israelis left but continued the blockade. The Israelis controlled Gaza's airspace and its borders. Rockets & missiles were being fired before Hamas was elected in 2006.  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel  Have these rockets caused much damage or loss of life?
On the other side, the Israeli counter attacks are lethal: for instance, in 2008, 1400 Palestinians and only 13 Israelis were killed  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/7/timeline-israels-attacks-on-gaza-since-2005

[Nick]

The BBC are still trying to come to terms with their dangerous mistake of regurgitating Qatar and Hamas lies, which resulted in International protests, based on false information.
They need to take more care.

A point Moray seems unable to accept.