Yet more proof.

[papasmurf]

No one said it could, the point is that in the USA, if you occupy unoccupied land and tend to it long enough, as long as it's not challenged, ownership can automatically pass to you

Try that in Britain and see how you get on. (New trespass and squatting laws enacted by the Tory government.)

[Borg Refinery]

No one said it could, the point is that in the USA, if you occupy unoccupied land and tend to it long enough, as long as it's not challenged, ownership can automatically pass to you

Presumably, that is the point of Beeb's USA help book asking you to find an abandoned farm in the USA

Also presumably, if a farm is completely abandoned and the owner is long gone, then it won't be on sale to anyone, not that I advocate going and illegally squatting on property in the UK

[papasmurf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFX7vF54ww

That does not mean it can be occupied without paying for it. 

[Borg Refinery]

There are no abandoned farms in Britain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFX7vF54ww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK78yflbO54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtmnhpPqDRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu_YToEqrtE

Etc.

[papasmurf]

It wouldn't cost anything like that if you found an abandoned farm

There are no abandoned farms in Britain. (They would cost a lot of money to buy if there were.)

[Borg Refinery]

Quite that would cost several £millions in Britain.

It wouldn't cost anything like that if you found an abandoned farm and made it your own, the point is that nearly all farmland is already inhabited and often used with maximising productivity in mind in tiny old England.

My point is that you can find empty forest land in forests in England, even in the south east, although it's very hard to find it in the south east and much easier in the south-west, west, north and midlands - maybe the east too

Although it's very illegal, but I don't think you are likely to be found in certain forests

[Borg Refinery]

Illegal camping is under threat, because of the fire hazards, left behind rubbish and human excrement. Wild campers on the other hand are in my experience locally predominantly ex armed services suffering from PTSD, there is next to no sign they were ever there when the move on.

Nope, wild camping is under threat and the Dartmoor campaigners won their fight to camp on the land, but it's being challenged in court

The right to wild camp on Dartmoor could be under threat again after the supreme court granted permission for a wealthy landowner to bring a case against it. Last year, the Dartmoor National Park Authority won an appeal against a decision to ban wild camping on the moors. Camping had been assumed to be allowed under the Dartmoor Commons Act since 1985, until a judge ruled otherwise last January. It was the only place in England that such an activity was allowed without requiring permission from a landowner. The case hinged on whether wild camping counted as open-air recreation, leading to a long debate in the court of appeal. Lawyers acting for Alexander Darwall, the landowner, argued it was not, because when camping one was only sleeping rather than enjoying a particular activity.

Link

Are you saying Darwall the hedge fund manager is right to battle the campaigners and Dartmoor National Park Authority?

[papasmurf]

Wild camping is under real threat in the UK from what I've seen about the laws, they even had a big legal fight over legal camping in old Dartmoor a few years back.

Illegal camping is under threat, because of the fire hazards, left behind rubbish and human excrement. Wild campers on the other hand are in my experience locally predominantly ex armed services suffering from PTSD, there is next to no sign they were ever there when the move on.

[papasmurf]

Someone got me a self sufficiency book from the US it was quite interesting but it started by advising you to find an abandoned farm with a few hundred acres of land including a water course and some forest - yeah not happening here!

Quite that would cost several £millions in Britain.

[Borg Refinery]

There are actually places where it might be possible in the UK, although not so much in the South East where I think you said you are in years previous.

The closest I saw were makeshift campsites in Hastings Country Park (I lived in Hastings up til last year), it has very remote forested areas by the sea and there are some streams and stuff in the woods, very prickly and dangerous - quicksand, quickmud, dangerous falling rocks and many more dangers besides.

Wild camping is under real threat in the UK from what I've seen about the laws, they even had a big legal fight over legal camping in old Dartmoor a few years back.

If you tend to some abandoned land for long enough, in some states, the ownership defaults to you if no one objects. It's dangerous to wander onto abandoned property here, you never know what you might find

You could also live between bothies which they have here in the Appalachians and other mountain ranges, or there's always trailers if you're so minded..

[BeElBeeBub]

You'd just get the hot water you need by boiling a big pot of it on the wood stove, you wouldn't expect continuous running hot water in such situations most probably. It's enough to wash yourself, clean things etc with.

Anyway, my point wasn't to endorse Scott's argument, I'm merely pointing out how things are for us here in America, that's all.

It's actually possible to build your own solar panel setup (given the abundant sunshine here in Georgia, it probably makes sense too) and generate your own electricity if you're sufficiently minded and have the proper materials, a lot of people do that and live 'off grid' here in the States and are quite self-sufficient.

You just need a whole bunker, many cans of tinned food and an armory of guns, grenades etc to complete the full prepper mindset - as well as a wifebeater and a beard

Yeah, if you are happy to go hillbilly tech then yes a pot on the stove will do.

It probably is easier to go fully off grid in the US mostly because the land prices are lower (in places).


Someone got me a self sufficiency book from the US it was quite interesting but it started by advising you to find an abandoned farm with a few hundred acres of land including a water course and some forest - yeah not happening here!

[Borg Refinery]

if you have wood stove fitted and wood, then you have heat, at least in that room.

Hot water (which we are all used to) is much harder requiring a back boiler and water tank.  Relatively uncommon

Cooking (beyond a stew pot on the stove) is much harder as solid fuel cooking ranges are very rare now.  Plus they are a bastard to cook on - my in-laws have one and haven't used it to cook on for decades.

Scot was proposing the reason for government agencies following the AGW narrative was because they wanted to move us away from fossil fuels and onto electricity because that makes it easier to control us.

I submit that running your household and vehicle on fossil fuels makes you easier to control because it is easier to cut off your supply.  Whilst electricity is not only a more useful energy type (there is almost no task you can't do with sufficient electricity) but also easier to be self sufficient in.

If things have got to the point where wood is your primary fuel, the question of government control would be moot as there either isn't a government or it's control is so total you are already screwed.

You'd just get the hot water you need by boiling a big pot of it on the wood stove, you wouldn't expect continuous running hot water in such situations most probably. It's enough to wash yourself, clean things etc with.

Anyway, my point wasn't to endorse Scott's argument, I'm merely pointing out how things are for us here in America, that's all.

It's actually possible to build your own solar panel setup (given the abundant sunshine here in Georgia, it probably makes sense too) and generate your own electricity if you're sufficiently minded and have the proper materials, a lot of people do that and live 'off grid' here in the States and are quite self-sufficient.

You just need a whole bunker, many cans of tinned food and an armory of guns, grenades etc to complete the full prepper mindset - as well as a wifebeater and a beard

[BeElBeeBub]

Personally, we would fare brilliantly here in America without it, we have an ample supply of wood cut up on our porch and plenty on the fireplace in case it gets cold, we'd just fix the fireplace to burn it.

We also have about 30 trees between the backyard and the frontyard and side, we won't run out of fuel unless a tornado hits, which it well could here.

I'm not sure we'd fare well without water, but I suppose you could collect rainwater and run it through the filters.

if you have wood stove fitted and wood, then you have heat, at least in that room.

Hot water (which we are all used to) is much harder requiring a back boiler and water tank.  Relatively uncommon

Cooking (beyond a stew pot on the stove) is much harder as solid fuel cooking ranges are very rare now.  Plus they are a bastard to cook on - my in-laws have one and haven't used it to cook on for decades.

Scot was proposing the reason for government agencies following the AGW narrative was because they wanted to move us away from fossil fuels and onto electricity because that makes it easier to control us.

I submit that running your household and vehicle on fossil fuels makes you easier to control because it is easier to cut off your supply.  Whilst electricity is not only a more useful energy type (there is almost no task you can't do with sufficient electricity) but also easier to be self sufficient in.

If things have got to the point where wood is your primary fuel, the question of government control would be moot as there either isn't a government or it's control is so total you are already screwed.

[Borg Refinery]

Personally, we would fare brilliantly here in America without it, we have an ample supply of wood cut up on our porch and plenty on the fireplace in case it gets cold, we'd just fix the fireplace to burn it.

We also have about 30 trees between the backyard and the frontyard and side, we won't run out of fuel unless a tornado hits, which it well could here.

I'm not sure we'd fare well without water, but I suppose you could collect rainwater and run it through the filters.

[papasmurf]

If I cut off your gas and electric today and gave you an axe, how well do you think you would fare?

I will not answer that question on the grounds I may incriminate myself.