The end of Mickey Mouse Uni courses

[papasmurf]

Why ?  Ive been on plenty of jobs that were poor quality ,had poor welfare  or even just didn't feel right and I picked up my tools and went somewhere else . I didn't need a union to do that .

The first defence against rouge employers is yourself

The only defence against a rogue employer is being in a union. It is now next to impossible to get legal representation yourself. You are selecting the sole situation of telling an employer which orifice to stick their job up.
When a rogue employer needs sorting it take union backing and union legal representation.

[Streetwalker]

That is a crass answer.

Why ?  Ive been on plenty of jobs that were poor quality ,had poor welfare  or even just didn't feel right and I picked up my tools and went somewhere else . I didn't need a union to do that .

The first defence against rouge employers is yourself 

[papasmurf]

We all know where the gate is .

That is a crass answer.

[Streetwalker]

Being in a union is your ONLY defence against rogue employers of which there are many in Britain.

We all know where the gate is . 

[papasmurf]

The unions hung themselves by trying to ransom the country, best thing ever when the unions collapsed in my opinion.

Being in a union is your ONLY defence against rogue employers of which there are many in Britain.

[Streetwalker]

I work in the trade, I learnt all the trades so no need for me to get plumbers, bricklayers, plasterers, joiners etc.. and not many kids want to go into the trades, they're busy in the land of TikTox, YouTube etc..

We're living through lazy times. The part of the problem with tax, pensions, NHS etc... there's a simple formula that Labourites can never grasp, "Where does the money come from?". Everything costs money, the Utopian thought is pay less tax but wanting greater infrastructure.

The part in bold, so what's the answer?

Well as far as apprenticeships are concerned trades have to go back to direct labour (PAYE) for building companies . The industry IMO worked much better before work was subbed out to all and sundry . Companies trained their own men ,proper apprenticeships and better working conditions . Lads would actually want to join the industry if there was a future in front of them 
Today we have subbies taking on the work ,they are not interested in training anyone and use 'improvers' kids with a year at college and an NVQ who end up learning on the job for various employers ,some good , some bad  .

Its hardly surprising the kids  would rather do something else ,who wants to be in and out of work and poorly trained in an industry that takes the piss out of those that work in it .

[Nick]

Blair was Tory mark 2. He did nothing to get rid of Thatcher's attack on the trade unions. (Although a union member I never paid the political levy.)

The unions hung themselves by trying to ransom the country, best thing ever when the unions collapsed in my opinion. 

[papasmurf]

Precisely, I just forever and a day see on forums the whinges on what Thatcher did despite the 70's and 80's being quite sometime ago. And if it's all bad, why didn't Labour reverse it? Then the lame reply flies in, "Blair was just a Tory". What I would do if I was in power, put basic economics on the schools curriculum, then you see Labour support fade away.

Blair was Tory mark 2. He did nothing to get rid of Thatcher's attack on the trade unions. (Although a union member I never paid the political levy.)

[Benson]

No they didn't.

Precisely, I just forever and a day see on forums the whinges on what Thatcher did despite the 70's and 80's being quite sometime ago. And if it's all bad, why didn't Labour reverse it? Then the lame reply flies in, "Blair was just a Tory". What I would do if I was in power, put basic economics on the schools curriculum, then you see Labour support fade away.

[Benson]

All the youngsters I know who have attended university have told of only having a few hours of lectures a week and as you say can or could be completed in half the time . But thats not really the point of uni , experiencing the university life is probably the no 1 reason for going in the first place for many , sports opportunity is another with training for elite competition fitting in nicely with further education .
Im sure there are some as you say just there for the pubs and parties and do leave with debts they will never repay but lets not begrudge a few kids having a good time .Social development is as important as educational success .

The Conservatives have been saying they will increase apprenticeship places since the 2010 manifesto which also included a National citizen  service for 16 year olds . Tax breaks for pensioners is also a tory favourite .  They have little to offer thats not a new idea , which I guess is part of their problem

I work in the trade, I learnt all the trades so no need for me to get plumbers, bricklayers, plasterers, joiners etc.. and not many kids want to go into the trades, they're busy in the land of TikTox, YouTube etc..

We're living through lazy times. The part of the problem with tax, pensions, NHS etc... there's a simple formula that Labourites can never grasp, "Where does the money come from?". Everything costs money, the Utopian thought is pay less tax but wanting greater infrastructure.

The part in bold, so what's the answer?

[papasmurf]

And Blair et. al. brought it all back, didn't he?

No they didn't. 

[Benson]

I agree, however most such courses were privatised by Thatcher and disappeared in the late 1980s.

And Blair et. al. brought it all back, didn't he?

[papasmurf]

What you mean is it took you ages to find a cheap plumber that would do the work, expenses plumbers are all over the place.

No I mean plumbers, (who are not cowboys,) are as rare as rocking horse poo and Unicorns locally. 
I wanted a job done properly, I knew it would not be cheap. A local plumbing emporium Plumb Crazy, who had always been very helpful when I have done Destroy-It-Yourself plumbing over the years,  recommended  a plumber. (Who it turns out is an ex aircraft industry engineer.) 
He did a very efficient job. Removed the old hot water tank, fitted a new one which required much pipe fitting and soldered joints. Upgraded to a 15 amp electrical supply with timer to the immersion heater. He also did some other plumbing work that my age and decrepitude I could not do myself. £600 in total.

[Nick]

It was the tories who froze the income tax allowance causing the fiscal drag that is now robbing pensioners who have private pensions as well as the State Pension, and dragging millions of people into a higher tax bracket. (Not a vote winner.)
As for apprenticeships and training it took me ages to find a plumber who was not wearing cowboy boots and a cowboy hat or who parked the piebald pony and cart outside that they came from Eastern Europe on.
I did find a skilled plumber who it turned out used to be an aircraft engineer. (I thought his soldering skills and pipework was of a far higher quality than normal.)

What you mean is it took you ages to find a cheap plumber that would do the work, expenses plumbers are all over the place. 

[Nick]

I hear lots of comment on the media about Sunak's intention to rid us of these courses but I haven't yet heard this reason. There are many courses out there that simply don't provide the education/qualifications for jobs. Some courses are very part-time and could be completed in half the time with half the debt. There are many who if we are really honest use their Uni time to take 3 years off but they finish up with massive debt and little chance of well paid jobs at the end.

If they have borrowed how on earth do they pay back? The truth is that they don't and as such everyone loses out. Surely it would be far better to send them into courses that actually equip them for life like apprenticeships or some sort of work/education schemes instead, where they can earn - and then drink their own money - and get a balance of life/work/education.

It was a wild hope of Blair's to expect huge numbers of students to thrive at Uni as they were but far from students rising to the challenge universities have had to consistently lower their standards in order for enough to qualify. There are simply too many universities now.

For me, this goes hand in hand with the rise of Socialism and wokeness. Youngsters are emerging from family units that have been on benefits their whole life. They have the mindset that they don't have to try or attain anything, the state will take care of them. Why would they go to university and set them selves on the path to achievement, they can sit in their pants all day and watch TV. 
The plan for national service doesn't go far enough for me, anyone above 18 should be given 3 months to get a job or do 3 years national service, I am sick to death of certain individuals on here spouting that the poor cherubs are hard done by. I'd give them 3 choices: work, national service or euthanasia.