Covid vaccines may have helped fuel rise in excess deaths

[BeElBeeBub]

Have you ever considered reading your posts afterwards, to check?

I try, but it's really hard on a phone. The site is designed for desktop.

[Scott777]

Apologies. That was a typo.

I meant ¼.

Have you ever considered reading your posts afterwards, to check?

[BeElBeeBub]

You said "the pandemic only hit about ¾ the way through 2020." - post #5  That would make September.  I don't know if you forgot what you wrote, or you are lying about it.

Ah, i see.

Apologies. That was a typo.

I meant ¼.

I use a phone and the fractions are accessed by swiping across a list.  My fat thumb must have landed on ¾ not ¼ and as the fonts are barely readable on a phone (and I didn't have my glasses on) I never caught the typo.

So we are at cross purposes.

Let's state for the record, we both agree the pandemic really started hit the UK around March 2020. With the majority of Q1 being normal with regards death rates.

This is why you can't just look at the raw excess deaths figures and conclude 2021 was worse than 2020.

Which means Jan

[Scott777]

I think you may have misread.

I *didn't* suggest the pandemic didn't take off until September 2020.

I said "Feb/March 2020" (which lines up with your experience)

If you look at the deaths by week in 2020, you'll see they were at or below the 5y average until March when they rocketed before falling back down after the restrictions took effect.

You said "the pandemic only hit about ¾ the way through 2020." - post #5  That would make September.  I don't know if you forgot what you wrote, or you are lying about it.

[BeElBeeBub]

This is completely wrong, entirely without evidence, and contradicts the widely accepted facts about the virus.  As we all know (at least you and I should agree), SARS-COV2 was and is highly transmissible.  To suggest it started in 2019, but only became a pandemic in September 2020, as you say, is of course absurd.  Such a highly transmissible virus, during winter, would spread much quicker.  And that's why I got it during a protest in February, as did many others.  It certainly didn't take another 6 months to become widespread, when that was mostly before all the restrictions and masks.  Your evidence of the pandemic "hitting" is based purely on testing.  There was no mass testing in winter 2019/2020, and no way to determine any figures.  Many people inevitably had it, with mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, and thought it was a cold or flu.

I think you may have misread.

I *didn't* suggest the pandemic didn't take off until September 2020.

I said "Feb/March 2020" (which lines up with your experience)

If you look at the deaths by week in 2020, you'll see they were at or below the 5y average until March when they rocketed before falling back down after the restrictions took effect.

[Barry]

Plus the DWP causing deaths by both action and inaction.

Do you think that would be responsible for extra deaths in the Philippines? Please try and control your DWP obsession.

[Barry]

Another conspiracy theory with no foundation.

Worthless comment, really. Back it up with a link that says jabs are not harming people.

[Scott777]

It is almost impossible for her diabetes to caused by the COVID vaccine. COVID itself is a vastly more probable cause (alongside random shitty chance)

What is the mechanism for the COVID vaccine (the mRNA one particularly) causing the effects you describe?  As understand it the shit simply gives you some mRNA that causes the cells it "infects" (for want of a better word) to produce some proteins that would be found on a COVID virus shell.  The mRNA is quickly broken down by the bodies natural processes so no more proteins are made.  The proteins themselves are also broken down.  If exposure to the proteins alone causes the effects you attribute to them, why would exposure to the COVID viruses itself not cause an equal or greater reaction?

I already posted the mechanism in #8.  Repeated doses exhausts the cytotoxic T-cells, as it detects the antigen (spike protein).  The virus is not the same thing, and you cannot assume it goes through the same immune response process as the spike protein.  For example, perhaps your immune system deals with the virus before it reaches the cytotoxic T-cells.

[BeElBeeBub]

Both directly and indirectly.  Yes the shots can cause direct injury.  They can also damage your immune system, allowing anything else to cause harm, including Covid, or even cancer, or AIDS.

It is almost impossible for her diabetes to caused by the COVID vaccine. COVID itself is a vastly more probable cause (alongside random shitty chance)

What is the mechanism for the COVID vaccine (the mRNA one particularly) causing the effects you describe?  As understand it the shit simply gives you some mRNA that causes the cells it "infects" (for want of a better word) to produce some proteins that would be found on a COVID virus shell.  The mRNA is quickly broken down by the bodies natural processes so no more proteins are made.  The proteins themselves are also broken down.  If exposure to the proteins alone causes the effects you attribute to them, why would exposure to the COVID viruses itself not cause an equal or greater reaction?

[Scott777]

So you're attributing the damage to the vaccine and not the actual COVID infection?

Both directly and indirectly.  Yes the shots can cause direct injury.  They can also damage your immune system, allowing anything else to cause harm, including Covid, or even cancer, or AIDS.

[BeElBeeBub]

Not among the unvaccinated, though, oddly enough.  I didn't get it.  No damage.  My mum got shingles after first dose, before she had any symptomatic Covid.  You might argue that Covid caused damage, but that does not preclude the possibility that the vaccines damaged the immune system first, making Covid worse.

So you're attributing the damage to the vaccine and not the actual COVID infection?

[Scott777]

there is very much the possibility that the damage caused by COVID infections was much more widespread (and may take longer to emerge) than the initial figures of people being hospitalised and dying would suggest.

Not among the unvaccinated, though, oddly enough.  I didn't get it.  No damage.  My mum got shingles after first dose, before she had any symptomatic Covid.  You might argue that Covid caused damage, but that does not preclude the possibility that the vaccines damaged the immune system first, making Covid worse.

[Scott777]

That's why it's called COVID *19*  it was first identified late 2019.

But the point is it hadn't spread significantly until late Feb/early march 2020.

Cast your mind back to early 2020. There were reports of "flu in China" - something about a "lockdown" in "Wuhan", terms nobody was particularly familiar with

Then in Feb Italy reported problems.

Then there was the lockdown in Northern Italy  and British politicians were saying "yes but that's the Italians" - implying it was those disorganised and backwards foreigners being disorganised and backwards

The UK numbers only started climbing in early March and the deaths started to pile up in mid march and likewise most of the world outside china.

This is completely wrong, entirely without evidence, and contradicts the widely accepted facts about the virus.  As we all know (at least you and I should agree), SARS-COV2 was and is highly transmissible.  To suggest it started in 2019, but only became a pandemic in September 2020, as you say, is of course absurd.  Such a highly transmissible virus, during winter, would spread much quicker.  And that's why I got it during a protest in February, as did many others.  It certainly didn't take another 6 months to become widespread, when that was mostly before all the restrictions and masks.  Your evidence of the pandemic "hitting" is based purely on testing.  There was no mass testing in winter 2019/2020, and no way to determine any figures.  Many people inevitably had it, with mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, and thought it was a cold or flu.

[BeElBeeBub]

...
Docs wont commit though but suggest changes to the immune system can highlight underlying problems . It could be that these kids would have lived their lives without ever knowing they had the possibility of diabetes which would never have been triggered but for covid . 

Very possible.

The point is, there is very much the possibility that the damage caused by COVID infections was much more widespread (and may take longer to emerge) than the initial figures of people being hospitalised and dying would suggest.

Even a "mild" infection could cause complications later down the line.

Which is counter to the argument that COVID was just a mild nithingburger blown out of proportion.  "No worse than the flu" or "only a problem for those about to die anyway"

[BeElBeeBub]

Falsehood.  Blood samples showed it hit as early as late 2019, according to PCR tests, although I think the tests are bollocks, but I'm sure you think they matter, so you need to explain that.  And I got it in February 2020.

That's why it's called COVID *19*  it was first identified late 2019.

But the point is it hadn't spread significantly until late Feb/early march 2020.

Cast your mind back to early 2020. There were reports of "flu in China" - something about a "lockdown" in "Wuhan", terms nobody was particularly familiar with 

Then in Feb Italy reported problems.

Then there was the lockdown in Northern Italy  and British politicians were saying "yes but that's the Italians" - implying it was those disorganised and backwards foreigners being disorganised and backwards 

The UK numbers only started climbing in early March and the deaths started to pile up in mid march and likewise most of the world outside china.