Start Knitting!

[Nick]

FFS 2% A YEAR.

I know, 2 times 10 isn't 23, that's almost a quarter. So basically the NHS funding increased by 23% over 10 years and that excludes the last 4 years where funding increased dramatically. 20/21 and 20/22 the budget increased by another 25%, so your statement that the Tories don't fund the NHS properly is 💩. 

[papasmurf]

The website is wrong, it states NHS spending grew 2% between 2010 and 2019 

FFS 2% A YEAR.

[Nick]

Yes it is with plenty of detailed explanation at the link which again you could not be bothered to read.

I doubt you will bother to read this either:-
Conservative Party's legacy on the NHS | The BMJ


Political choices by the Conservatives in government weakened the NHS and made it harder for staff to deliver a high performing service. A decade of underinvestment going into covid-19 constrained what the NHS could do. Health spending grew by around 2% a year in real terms between 2010 and 2019—well below the long term average in England (3.8% a year since the 1980s).12 Low capital investment left staff working in crumbling buildings, with inadequate equipment and IT.13 It also left the NHS falling behind other health systems. If the UK had matched comparable European countries' average capital investment in healthcare as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) between 2010 and 2019, the UK would have invested £33bn more (around 55% higher).14 Failures in workforce planning meant the NHS went into the pandemic with fewer doctors and nurses per person than most comparable countries.15 Staff also had to cope with fewer physical resources, such as hospital beds and scanners.15
All this and more sent the NHS into crisis long before covid-19, leaving the health system vulnerable to the pandemic and worsening its impact. The NHS is still in crisis. The elective waiting list is now over 7.5 million, and pressures on emergency care are extreme.2 NHS staff shortages are widespread,16 and only around a third of staff think there are enough people in their organisation to do their job properly.17 Staff are stressed out, burnt out, and feeling the effects of real terms pay cuts since 2010.171819 The long overdue NHS workforce plan published by Sunak's government in 202320 has not been enough to convince striking NHS doctors that the government understands their value.
Policy failures elsewhere made things worse. Public health budgets have been cut.21 Investment in wider public services that shape health and inequalities has been weak.2223 England's threadbare social care system has been underfunded and unreformed.24 A national strategy to reduce England's vast and growing health inequalities has been shockingly absent, despite a similar strategy being in place and making a difference in the 2000s.25 Brexit has made things harder for the NHS.26
The Conservatives' approach to health service reform was messy. Despite promising no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS,27 the Conservatives bookended their 14 years in power with two of them, each pulling in different directions. First was the Health and Social Care Act 2012—a mammoth restructure that tried to strengthen competition in the NHS. The result was disruption and fragmentation,28 and a growing gap between the "rules in form" and "rules in use" as health leaders tried to join up local services.29 Fast forward a decade and the Health and Care Act 2022 scrapped key components of the 2012 reforms and many organisations it created, emphasising collaboration to improve care instead.30 Ironically, the NHS now has a structure that has broad support from its leaders.31 But time, energy, and resources have been wasted getting there.
A long line of policy initiatives to integrate health and social care services continued as the tectonic plates shifted—"pioneers," "vanguards," and more—but results were mixed and local efforts held back by limited funding and changing policy.32 A combination of policies aimed to improve patient safety after the Francis review, but their effects are hard to gauge and organisational catastrophes recur.33
Time for honesty
The NHS is weakened but not broken. The health service sees millions of people each week—delivering our babies, caring for our parents, treating our friends and colleagues. The number of appointments in general practice is now higher than before the pandemic, despite the number of fully qualified permanent GPs falling since 2015.34 Trends in use of private healthcare provide worrying signs that the social contract underpinning the NHS may be fraying as access to care worsens.3536 But public support for the NHS's core principles—available to all, free at the point of use, funded primarily through taxation—remain rock solid.11 The major strengths of the NHS model endure.37
Labour inherits a mess. Other international health systems face similar challenges, such as staff gaps and population ageing. But details on what Labour plan to do about it are—so far—thin. A first step should be honesty with the public about the substantial investment needed to recover NHS services, and the tricky trade-offs this would mean for other areas of public spending and levels of taxation.12
Footnotes

• Competing interests: The BMJ has judged that there are no disqualifying financial ties to commercial companies. The author declares no other interests. Further details of The BMJ policy on financial interests are here: https://www.bmj.com/sites/default/files/attachments/resources/2016/03/16-current-bmj-education-coi-form.pdf.

The website is wrong, it states NHS spending grew 2% between 2010 and 2019 when in fact it was 23%. I've given you the ONS figures, go and argue with someone else, if you can't do the maths that is your problem.

[papasmurf]

Another slippery attempt at pulling the wool. This graph is not NHS spending, 

Yes it is with plenty of detailed explanation at the link which again you could not be bothered to read.

I doubt you will bother to read this either:-
Conservative Party's legacy on the NHS | The BMJ


Political choices by the Conservatives in government weakened the NHS and made it harder for staff to deliver a high performing service. A decade of underinvestment going into covid-19 constrained what the NHS could do. Health spending grew by around 2% a year in real terms between 2010 and 2019—well below the long term average in England (3.8% a year since the 1980s).12 Low capital investment left staff working in crumbling buildings, with inadequate equipment and IT.13 It also left the NHS falling behind other health systems. If the UK had matched comparable European countries' average capital investment in healthcare as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) between 2010 and 2019, the UK would have invested £33bn more (around 55% higher).14 Failures in workforce planning meant the NHS went into the pandemic with fewer doctors and nurses per person than most comparable countries.15 Staff also had to cope with fewer physical resources, such as hospital beds and scanners.15
All this and more sent the NHS into crisis long before covid-19, leaving the health system vulnerable to the pandemic and worsening its impact. The NHS is still in crisis. The elective waiting list is now over 7.5 million, and pressures on emergency care are extreme.2 NHS staff shortages are widespread,16 and only around a third of staff think there are enough people in their organisation to do their job properly.17 Staff are stressed out, burnt out, and feeling the effects of real terms pay cuts since 2010.171819 The long overdue NHS workforce plan published by Sunak's government in 202320 has not been enough to convince striking NHS doctors that the government understands their value.
Policy failures elsewhere made things worse. Public health budgets have been cut.21 Investment in wider public services that shape health and inequalities has been weak.2223 England's threadbare social care system has been underfunded and unreformed.24 A national strategy to reduce England's vast and growing health inequalities has been shockingly absent, despite a similar strategy being in place and making a difference in the 2000s.25 Brexit has made things harder for the NHS.26
The Conservatives' approach to health service reform was messy. Despite promising no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS,27 the Conservatives bookended their 14 years in power with two of them, each pulling in different directions. First was the Health and Social Care Act 2012—a mammoth restructure that tried to strengthen competition in the NHS. The result was disruption and fragmentation,28 and a growing gap between the "rules in form" and "rules in use" as health leaders tried to join up local services.29 Fast forward a decade and the Health and Care Act 2022 scrapped key components of the 2012 reforms and many organisations it created, emphasising collaboration to improve care instead.30 Ironically, the NHS now has a structure that has broad support from its leaders.31 But time, energy, and resources have been wasted getting there.
A long line of policy initiatives to integrate health and social care services continued as the tectonic plates shifted—"pioneers," "vanguards," and more—but results were mixed and local efforts held back by limited funding and changing policy.32 A combination of policies aimed to improve patient safety after the Francis review, but their effects are hard to gauge and organisational catastrophes recur.33
Time for honesty
The NHS is weakened but not broken. The health service sees millions of people each week—delivering our babies, caring for our parents, treating our friends and colleagues. The number of appointments in general practice is now higher than before the pandemic, despite the number of fully qualified permanent GPs falling since 2015.34 Trends in use of private healthcare provide worrying signs that the social contract underpinning the NHS may be fraying as access to care worsens.3536 But public support for the NHS's core principles—available to all, free at the point of use, funded primarily through taxation—remain rock solid.11 The major strengths of the NHS model endure.37
Labour inherits a mess. Other international health systems face similar challenges, such as staff gaps and population ageing. But details on what Labour plan to do about it are—so far—thin. A first step should be honesty with the public about the substantial investment needed to recover NHS services, and the tricky trade-offs this would mean for other areas of public spending and levels of taxation.12
Footnotes

• Competing interests: The BMJ has judged that there are no disqualifying financial ties to commercial companies. The author declares no other interests. Further details of The BMJ policy on financial interests are here: https://www.bmj.com/sites/default/files/attachments/resources/2016/03/16-current-bmj-education-coi-form.pdf.

[Nick]

Nick you resort to insults when you are talking out of your fundamental orifice. The Tories have starved the NHS of funding and not even got back to historical levels.


The NHS Budget And How It Has Changed | The King's Fund (kingsfund.org.uk)


Since 1955/56, spending on the NHS has increased by an average of 3.6% per year in real terms, but this masks substantial variation over time depending on the decisions made by the government of the day.


NHS England spending has varied substantially over time

Real-terms (in 2022/23 prices) increase in government spending on health

Another slippery attempt at pulling the wool. This graph is not NHS spending, but you knew that and thought you'd try and prove yourself right hoping we didn't notice. 

My graph however is from the ONS, showing actually spending. Proving you wrong. 

[papasmurf]

The NHS was funded at record levels under the Tories, you're talking bollox as usual.
You didn't tell me which policy is stopping people from working?

Nick you resort to insults when you are talking out of your fundamental orifice. The Tories have starved the NHS of funding and not even got back to historical levels.


The NHS Budget And How It Has Changed | The King's Fund (kingsfund.org.uk)


Since 1955/56, spending on the NHS has increased by an average of 3.6% per year in real terms, but this masks substantial variation over time depending on the decisions made by the government of the day.


NHS England spending has varied substantially over time

Real-terms (in 2022/23 prices) increase in government spending on health

[Nick]

Nick what "these" people? (Seriously) Just who are you referring to? Or are you as ill informed as Sunak was?

There has been between 8 and 9 million "economically inactive" for several decades. Anyone who analyses the data for that knows most of them are not available for work.
The Tories spent 14 years underfunding the NHS with the result a large number of people cannot work until they get the treatment needed to so they can get back to work.
People with ill informed attitudes like yours are the reason the Tories got trashed at the general election.

Chart and reasons for inactivity at the top of link:-
UK economic inactivity by reason 2024 | Statista

The NHS was funded at record levels under the Tories, you're talking bollox as usual. 
You didn't tell me which policy is stopping people from working?

[papasmurf]

So tell me Smurf, what Tory policy is hindering these people from going out, working and making money?

Nick what "these" people? (Seriously) Just who are you referring to? Or are you as ill informed as Sunak was?

There has been between 8 and 9 million "economically inactive" for several decades. Anyone who analyses the data for that knows most of them are not available for work.
The Tories spent 14 years underfunding the NHS with the result a large number of people cannot work until they get the treatment needed to so they can get back to work.
People with ill informed attitudes like yours are the reason the Tories got trashed at the general election.

Chart and reasons for inactivity at the top of link:-
UK economic inactivity by reason 2024 | Statista

[Nick]

Nick yet again you prove you really do not have a clue.

So tell me Smurf, what Tory policy is hindering these people from going out, working and making money?

[papasmurf]

As as I put it, bone idleness.

Nick yet again you prove you really do not have a clue.

[Nick]

True for you is not true for 14 million people now in precarity due to Tory policies, nastiness, and callousness.

As as I put it, bone idleness.

[papasmurf]

Well some working people did ,I can make that comment because it was true for me . I never had a problem with my income with the tories , it was all the crap that came with it that was my issue with them .

True for you is not true for 14 million people now in precarity due to Tory policies, nastiness, and callousness.
Or the ever increasing number of people in work being referred to food banks. Or the many thousands of people killed by DWP action and inaction.

[Streetwalker]

You really must be joking. (Seriously.) I am astounded that you can make such a comment.

Well some working people did ,I can make that comment because it was true for me . I never had a problem with my income with the tories , it was all the crap that came with it that was my issue with them .

[papasmurf]

Working people had it OK under the Tories

You really must be joking. (Seriously.) I am astounded that you can make such a comment.

[patman post]

Working people had it OK under the Tories and the dossers around here have seemed to be alright apart from when the fuel went up in cost and they all started moaning that they couldn't afford to pay it . But that's just life ,good times and bad times , The trouble is some people don't save for rainy days and that's a problem of modern society not who is in government .

Except if the government — after imposing Austerity for years — puts the likes of Johnson and Truss in power, so that savings quickly get used up in soaring rents and mortgage rates and cost of living.

• Now, up to a third (34%) of adults had either no savings (or less than £1,000) in a savings account;   
• Around six in 10 (61%) UK adults save money either every or most months;    
• Almost two-thirds (65%) of people believe they wouldn't be able to last three months without borrowing money...

https://www.money.co.uk/savings-accounts/savings-statistics