They didn't stop the boats.

[patman post]

All that Pat is an oblique way of complaining about our past you have told us how successful you are here being the sonof a commonwealth citizen so good luck to you and quit moaning,rhe other is you still haven't got over Brexit.

The present asylum system is  not sustainable and needs altering pronto.

No — all that is a rundown of where the UK has got itself, and what it has now to contend with. 

As for the present asylum system needing to be altered, you don't suggest how the UK can do it alone...

[patman post]

Perhaps we should invent new rules like the eu has for people travelling from the UK to there

But rules are only useful if they can be enforced and can achieve their objectives. I suggest, entry to the UK via its official entry points, is as strict as  those for the EU — it's the inability to stop unofficial entries that appear to be triggering the most concern in the EU and UK and elsewhere.

Perhaps, for single countries or blocs, the most likely deterrent to all immigration would be to become as unappealing and dangerous as Myanmar, North Korea, or Russia...

PS — and don't forget it's the UK itself that's imposed rules like insisting that UK vehicles must carry a UK identifier while abroad, as GB is no longer valid.

[papasmurf]

It has been reported on both the BBC and ITV news.

I have read and watched the reported from those and several others. I have seen nothing like that mentioned, which is why I asked.

[srb7677]

Where did you glean that from please?

It has been reported on both the BBC and ITV news.

[papasmurf]

Its not complicated and Im not even thinking about any 'problems ' as there are not any .

There are loads of problems, that are not obvious, when sitting at the key board of your computer. I suggest you try turning them back for real.

[Streetwalker]

The scenario I proposed is *exactly* what you are proposing.

"pushbacks" are a legal hack. You literally push the boat back away from the UK. The argument being that they are not on your vessel therefore you aren't responsible. The problem is you aren't allowed to push them all the way to the shore - that pesky territorial waters thing.

So you end up shoving the boat around the channel
This ends 2 ways
1 the boat gives up and turns around
2 the boat sinks and the people get picked up
1 is often not possible as the boat has no power (the smugglers don't put enough fuel in)
2 is what normally happens, often with loss of life in the ensuing chaos.

Once an RNLI or coastguard boat picks up loads of migrants from a sinking dingy they have 3 choices.

1. Chuck them back in the sea.
2. Go to the UK and offload them (where they immediately claim asylum)
3. Go to another country (eg France) and offload them there.


1 is obviously out
2 is the current situation
3 is what you propose and entails a UK vessel landing people at a French port (or beach)

So we would have British boats (read French boats).arriving at French ports/beaches (read British ports/beaches) to offload people.

It's really easy to sit on a keyboard/in the pub/as MP for Clacton and say "we should push them back" or "use the Navy!" or whatever but the actual practicalities when you need the cooperation of peer country are more difficult.

France are happy enough to take our lorry loads of money to help stop the boats , we are just assisting them in assisting us ,dump the migrants on the beach . As I say when its clear that route is closed they will stop spending their money trying it .
Its not complicated and Im not even thinking about any 'problems ' as there are not any .
We don't want these people and they are not coming in .

[papasmurf]

I am not assuming anything, I know what is happening.

You "know," it is happening? Really?  I prefer some provable evidence. There is so much lies and propaganda flooding social media, Youtube, the media and the press, which none of passes the systematic skepticism analysis test, I would much rather see some facts.

[Nick]

You assume they have IT skills or can read.

I am not assuming anything, I know what is happening. 

[papasmurf]

Telegram is the Russian equivalent of WhatsApp, course it's full of crap. But it's the platform of choice for these idiots burning our streets.

You assume they have IT skills or can read.

[Nick]

To be fair,. Telegram is worse than twitter for misinformation.

Telegram is the Russian equivalent of WhatsApp, course it's full of crap. But it's the platform of choice for these idiots burning our streets. 

[BeElBeeBub]

The present asylum system is  not sustainable and needs altering pronto.

On this we.agree.

The large number of people crossing the channel stems from one part of our asylum policy. 

Aside from some very limited exceptions you cannot claim asylum in the UK from outside the UK 

You have to ask why no Ukrainians crossed the channel. In small boats. The answer is they were one of the categories that coukd claim from outside. They just hopped on a ferry or flight and arrived at a port for processing. As part of that process they had some working rights so they couod start to earn money. The result being much less problems (not zero). 

In contrast a Syrian etc can it do that. They must get to the UK first. But they can't do that as no ferry or flight will.let them board without the right paperwork. And they can't get the paperwork without being in the UK, and they can't get to the UK without the rigtb paperwork.....
You see the issue. 

If we simply allowed asum applications at any British embassy (plus an office in calsis) then awarded the genuine cases asylum and allowed them to hop on a ferry to the UK we would instantly cut the small boat issue.

In addition, we would have the details (biometrics history etc) of any failed applicants. If they subsequently turned up on a boat we can ship them back very quickly.

[BeElBeeBub]

I suggest you look on Telegram.

To be fair,. Telegram is worse than twitter for misinformation. 

[BeElBeeBub]

If they come from France we can return them to France ,or pushbacks as it is known a tactic used by Australia , Greece and Italy in recent years .  You are creating scenarios that would never happen with regard the French bringing the migrants over .

The scenario I proposed is *exactly* what you are proposing. 

"pushbacks" are a legal hack. You literally push the boat back away from the UK. The argument being that they are not on your vessel therefore you aren't responsible. The problem is you aren't allowed to push them all the way to the shore - that pesky territorial waters thing. 

So you end up shoving the boat around the channel 
This ends 2 ways
1 the boat gives up and turns around
2 the boat sinks and the people get picked up
1 is often not possible as the boat has no power (the smugglers don't put enough fuel in) 
2 is what normally happens, often with loss of life in the ensuing chaos. 

Once an RNLI or coastguard boat picks up loads of migrants from a sinking dingy they have 3 choices. 

1. Chuck them back in the sea.
2. Go to the UK and offload them (where they immediately claim asylum)
3. Go to another country (eg France) and offload them there. 


1 is obviously out 
2 is the current situation 
3 is what you propose and entails a UK vessel landing people at a French port (or beach) 

So we would have British boats (read French boats).arriving at French ports/beaches (read British ports/beaches) to offload people. 

It's really easy to sit on a keyboard/in the pub/as MP for Clacton and say "we should push them back" or "use the Navy!" or whatever but the actual practicalities when you need the cooperation of peer country are more difficult. 

[cromwell]

But the UK cannot solve the problem by itself. It's a European off-shore island. It has no empire, and it's jettisoned its nearby friends. It now has to work hard to prove it wants to play its part in trying to solve the problems of mass migration that's affecting the whole of Europe, and elsewhere.

Unfortunately, all mainland Europe sees is anti-foreigner rhetoric from UK politicians and rioting from its racist thugs — and they've enough of their own to contend with, why would they feel safe dealing with the UK...?

All that Pat is an oblique way of complaining about our past you have told us how successful you are here being the sonof a commonwealth citizen so good luck to you and quit moaning,rhe other is you still haven't got over Brexit.

The present asylum system is  not sustainable and needs altering pronto.

[Nick]

Could you provide a link please. I have been trawling through all reporting on those who have appeared in court and I can find no comment about them having any links to an organisation.

I suggest you look on Telegram.