Impending machete ban.

[BeElBeeBub]

No they're not,the legislation to cover this is already in place  this was not needed.

If you have an agricultural machete, a lawful reason for owning it and carry it in a reasonable manner (ie you are an agricultural worker harvesting cabbages and not an apprentice bricklayer on a night out) then you are not breaking the law under the new legislation.

It does criminalise the produxtiin/ownership etc of so called "zombie knives" - which have zero lawful reasons for use outside a film set. They are (as their name implies) purely designed for intimidation. Ironically many of their features make them less efficient killing blades than less flashy looking things like rapiers, long swords etc.

[BeElBeeBub]

You just made my point. White people make up 84% of population yet only 79% of convictions, black 4% population and yet 10% of convictions, almost 3 times that of white people.

The point is, if you only look (or at least overly focus on) at a certain segment of the population for crimes you are bound to skew the results.

If you then use the fact that the segment in question has a higher conviction rate as your justification for even greater scrutiny you end up in self perpetuating cycle.


The fact policing has been historically and even currently racist in it's approach is undeniable. The Steven Lawrence affair is a litteraly case study in racist assumptions in policing. It seems we haven't moved on as far as we should have from those days (acknowledging that some progress has been made) 

[cromwell]

I think many here are getting into a lather over nothing.

First, I believe the ban applies to blades over 8" with 2 of the following -a fine edge,. A serrated edge , 2 or more holes in the blade

A basic agricultural machete doesn't fall foul of that only having a fine edge.

Secondly it has always been illegal to carry pretty much anything the intent to use it as a weapon. A sock with a snooker ball could be illegal.

Context is everything. Carrying a 12" serrated blade in public is fine if you are a chef going to work and it is appropriately packaged eg in a bag and not stuffed down your trouser leg. A Stanley knife is fine if you are a builder or similar going abiut your business. Not so in a nightclub or the football terraces.

So a bog standard agricultural machete use for harvesting or brush cutting (I have 2) is fine as long as you have a reasonable use for it (eg harvest and brush cut) Not fine stuffed in your coat at a protest outside an alleged asylum hostel.

The idea of "every day carry" knives is some sort of import from the US. Usually with the subtext of them being fighting knives. As someone who does carry a knife for work,. It"s a folding 2" zippo knife mainly used for opening packages and occasionally cutting twine, rope etc. and I only carry it for work in my work trousers. I don't take it out in the evenings because it's not necessary in a restaurant or cinema.

If I need a bigger knife or blade I go to my tool box or van or shed for it. I don't walk around with an 12" brush cutter when I don't expect to cut brush.

That would be stupid.

No they're not,the legislation to cover this is already in place  this was not needed.

[Nick]

That most crime is by white people?  That minorities are already disproportionally searched? 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022/statistics-on-ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html

You just made my point. White people make up 84% of population yet only 79% of convictions, black 4% population and yet 10% of convictions, almost 3 times that of white people. 

[patman post]

It's not worth getting upset about is it?
When you thought it couldn't get worse with the tories the toolmakers son decided to take any legitimate usage of tools away and it won't stop here.

The law was framed under the Tories...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-law-to-ban-zombie-style-knives-and-machetes

[Unlucky4Sum]

  ^

[BeElBeeBub]

I think many here are getting into a lather over nothing.

First, I believe the ban applies to blades over 8" with 2 of the following -a fine edge,. A serrated edge , 2 or more holes in the blade

A basic agricultural machete doesn't fall foul of that only having a fine edge.

Secondly it has always been illegal to carry pretty much anything the intent to use it as a weapon. A sock with a snooker ball could be illegal.

Context is everything. Carrying a 12" serrated blade in public is fine if you are a chef going to work and it is appropriately packaged eg in a bag and not stuffed down your trouser leg. A Stanley knife is fine if you are a builder or similar going abiut your business. Not so in a nightclub or the football terraces.

So a bog standard agricultural machete use for harvesting or brush cutting (I have 2) is fine as long as you have a reasonable use for it (eg harvest and brush cut) Not fine stuffed in your coat at a protest outside an alleged asylum hostel.

The idea of "every day carry" knives is some sort of import from the US. Usually with the subtext of them being fighting knives. As someone who does carry a knife for work,. It"s a folding 2" zippo knife mainly used for opening packages and occasionally cutting twine, rope etc. and I only carry it for work in my work trousers. I don't take it out in the evenings because it's not necessary in a restaurant or cinema.

If I need a bigger knife or blade I go to my tool box or van or shed for it. I don't walk around with an 12" brush cutter when I don't expect to cut brush.

That would be stupid.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Which bit do you disagree with?

Pretty much every word of your 'It's nothing to do with protecting people from choppy type crimes, and everything to do with the state having more power.  It should be obvious by now that the police use the law (or non-law) arbitrarily, and are biased against anyone with an anti-establishment view.  It won't stop with machetes.  It will be anything you could possibly use to defend yourself.  It won't be minorities getting arrested, it will be the "far right" who want less immigration.  Meanwhile, police thugs of the police state will continue to carry their own weapons, ready to crack you over the head if you say hurty words, or commit a thought crime.'

Is the state perfect?  No, nothing ever is.  Do our governments sometimes tend to use control rather than leadership?  Yes but not always.  But I truly believe our governments since 1974 were trying to do their best for the country albeit with some flawed views of best and the occasional rogue self serving character. 

I just don't believe the governments are evil narrative that pervades too often.   

[Unlucky4Sum]

What we also need is racial profiling and someone to actually say it as it is.

That most crime is by white people?  That minorities are already disproportionally searched?  

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022/statistics-on-ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html

[Scott777]

At the end of the day, the only solution is police reform.  They cannot be trusted to use the law properly.  More laws will be used against all the wrong people.  We all know they won't go after black and brown people for fear of being called racist.  If they can't arrest knife carriers now, more laws will make no difference to criminals, nor stop and search.

[Scott777]

Yes of course that must be true

Except it clearly isn't

Which bit do you disagree with?

[Streetwalker]

What we also need is racial profiling and someone to actually say it as it is.

Agreed . Plod know who are carrying the weapons yet have to waste time searching 2 people who they know will not be carrying so they can search one they know probably will be .

Searching black kids would go some way to reducing knife crime and save lives , mostly theirs .

[cromwell]

It was an example of some of the dross we get  from him.

Yes excepting post #12 you replied that to me not him and I thought eh! I've never sad I'm 76 

[Nick]

What??

It was an example of some of the dross we get  from him. 

[Nick]

There are enough laws already to cover having an offensive weapon in a public place, which can be anything, if the intent can be proven.
What we need is more police stop and searches, especially in city areas where knife crime is prevalent.
Let the police use their abilities to target the drug dealing, violent gang types and get them locked up.

What we also need is racial profiling and someone to actually say it as it is.