Impending machete ban.

[Borg Refinery]

Yes age restrictions apply (which I took as read and assumed the discussion was about adults)

The point is it is perfectly legal to buy and own kitchen knives (if you are an adult) - I imagine everyone on this forum owns several.

But it would still be illegal for any of us to carry one at a football match.

The key point (as the link you posted mentions) is carrying almost any knife in public is illegal unless you have a good reason eg work

I struggle to think of anything that is illegal to posses but legal to carry in public.

Currently it woiod be legal for an adult to buy and posses a zombie knife. The police could visit your home and you could be sitting on a throne made of them and it would be fine. You could even have one in public with a good reason. Say it was wrapped and you were taking it to the post office to send to a legal buyer.

But after the 24th it will be illegal to own one at all even if it is in a cupboard in your house.

Crucially - agricultural knives etc are generally not caught by this new definition so things remain as before.

I don't think you understand. Those in gangs who actually use said knives tend to be 18 and under in gangs? Hence the relevance? You falsely stated that people can legally buy knives without qualifying it, I'm not a mind reader. I know that youngins are in gangs so it is very much relevant, why would I be speaking primarily about adults if referring to the zombie machetes often wielded by teen gang members after all??

You seem to have ignored most of that and gone off on a tangent. If you can't wield offensive weapons in public, then zombie machetes and knives should come under that law. I'm not even sure why you brung up "illegal to possess but legal to carry in public".

[BeElBeeBub]

So you're saying under-18s could purchase zombie-style machetes from shops even though it's clearly an offensive weapon - and this was tested out in court and some judge was retarded enough to actually say the kid was allowed to buy it legally?

If so, the country is even more knackered than I thought

I don't get where the under 18 but comes from? I don't think anyone here has claimed that under 18's could legally buy knives except pocket knives. 

[BeElBeeBub]

I guess you don't know about knife laws then
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives#:~:text=Basic%20laws%20on%20knives%20and%20weapons&text=It's%20also%20illegal%20to%3A,under%20the%20age%20of%2018

It's clearly illegal to sell knives to anyone under 18, I'm not sure why you said it's not illegal to supply something that's illegal to carry in public. There are a lot of things it's illegal to sell to people that you can't carry in public anyway, that's just the first example and the others don't even involve kids, you can't sell knuckle dusters and many other types of weapons to anyone at all

The thread is rife with completely untrue things being thrown about casually so I've mostly avoided it - but this is just one example, and it's coming from all sides here. So much misinfo, so little time

Yes age restrictions apply (which I took as read and assumed the discussion was about adults) 

The point is it is perfectly legal to buy and own kitchen knives (if you are an adult) - I imagine everyone on this forum owns several.

But it would still be illegal for any of us to carry one at a football match.

The key point (as the link you posted mentions) is carrying almost any knife in public is illegal unless you have a good reason eg work

I struggle to think of anything that is illegal to posses but legal to carry in public.

Currently it woiod be legal for an adult to buy and posses a zombie knife. The police could visit your home and you could be sitting on a throne made of them and it would be fine. You could even have one in public with a good reason. Say it was wrapped and you were taking it to the post office to send to a legal buyer.

But after the 24th it will be illegal to own one at all even if it is in a cupboard in your house.

Crucially - agricultural knives etc are generally not caught by this new definition so things remain as before. 

[Borg Refinery]

But a zombie style machete isn't a knife so wasn't subject to such.  They tried to ban them in 2016 but there were loopholes left so this recent change is intended to close those loopholes by giving a specific definition by size and blade specifics.

This isn't a bad read giving the history  https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldsecleg/59/5903.htm

So you're saying under-18s could purchase zombie-style machetes from shops even though it's clearly an offensive weapon - and this was tested out in court and some judge was retarded enough to actually say the kid was allowed to buy it legally?

If so, the country is even more knackered than I thought

[Unlucky4Sum]

I guess you don't know about knife laws then
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives#:~:text=Basic%20laws%20on%20knives%20and%20weapons&text=It's%20also%20illegal%20to%3A,under%20the%20age%20of%2018

It's clearly illegal to sell knives to anyone under 18, I'm not sure why you said it's not illegal to supply something that's illegal to carry in public. There are a lot of things it's illegal to sell to people that you can't carry in public anyway, that's just the first example and the others don't even involve kids, you can't sell knuckle dusters and many other types of weapons to anyone at all

The thread is rife with completely untrue things being thrown about casually so I've mostly avoided it - but this is just one example, and it's coming from all sides here. So much misinfo, so little time

But a zombie style machete isn't a knife so wasn't subject to such.  They tried to ban them in 2016 but there were loopholes left so this recent change is intended to close those loopholes by giving a specific definition by size and blade specifics.

This isn't a bad read giving the history  https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5804/ldselect/ldsecleg/59/5903.htm

 

[Borg Refinery]

But it is not illegal to own or supply a thing that could be illegal to carry on public. The obvious example being kitchen knives.

I guess you don't know about knife laws then

It's also illegal to: carry most knives or any weapons in public without a 'good reason' sell most knives or any weapons to anyone under the age of 18.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives#:~:text=Basic%20laws%20on%20knives%20and%20weapons&text=It's%20also%20illegal%20to%3A,under%20the%20age%20of%2018

It's clearly illegal to sell knives to anyone under 18, I'm not sure why you said it's not illegal to supply something that's illegal to carry in public. There are a lot of things it's illegal to sell to people that you can't carry in public anyway, that's just the first example and the others don't even involve kids, you can't sell knuckle dusters and many other types of weapons to anyone at all

The thread is rife with completely untrue things being thrown about casually so I've mostly avoided it - but this is just one example, and it's coming from all sides here. So much misinfo, so little time

[Nick]

Welcome to the world of trial by jury and proof beyond reasonable doubt.

And is the defence going to suggest he was off to pick cabbages?
Then there is no other alternative to the fact that it is an offensive weapon. 

[BeElBeeBub]

If anybody is unable to comprehend that some herbert carrying a zombie knife or machete on an inner city street isn't in possession of an offensive weapon is detached from reality.
And for the benefit of Pat
which I was well aware of and why I said in post #20 it's a game Westminster play.

You are confusing carrying someting in public with just possessing something.

Almost anything is illegal to carry on public for the purposes of being a weapon. A screwdriver, spanner, small steel bar can all be considered offensive weapons. 

But it is not illegal to own or supply a thing that could be illegal to carry on public. The obvious example being kitchen knives. 

Previously it was as legal to own or sell a knife like this.


as it was to own or sell a knife like this



both would be considered an offensive weapon of you were caught with one in your trousers on the high street. 

but both would perfectly legal have dozens of in your house or to sell. 

This made it harder for police to get the obviously only for intimidation items off the streets or to shut down manufacturers and suppliers.

Now those type of knives are illegal so the supply is more constrained. They can be confiscated wherever they are found not just if someone is carrying one in public. 

Regular machetes and even carrying them in public in a reasonable and lawful way ie you are a cabbage harvester traveling to and from work with one in your backpack or in the boot of your car are not illegal. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

If anybody is unable to comprehend that some herbert carrying a zombie knife or machete on an inner city street isn't in possession of an offensive weapon is detached from reality.

Welcome to the world of trial by jury and proof beyond reasonable doubt.

[cromwell]

Which were not well (enough) defined

If anybody is unable to comprehend that some herbert carrying a zombie knife or machete on an inner city street isn't in possession of an offensive weapon is detached from reality.
And for the benefit of Pat

The law was framed under the Tories

which I was well aware of and why I said in post #20 it's a game Westminster play.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Comes under offensive weapons

Which were not well (enough) defined

[cromwell]

You sure?

This recent change was to ban Zombie style knives and machetes that had exploited a loophole in the law.

Worth reading the brief discussion here:  Hansard record of 'debate' on the point

Comes under offensive weapons

[Unlucky4Sum]

No they're not,the legislation to cover this is already in place  this was not needed.

You sure?

This recent change was to ban Zombie style knives and machetes that had exploited a loophole in the law.

Worth reading the brief discussion here:  Hansard record of 'debate' on the point

[Unlucky4Sum]

You just made my point. White people make up 84% of population yet only 79% of convictions, black 4% population and yet 10% of convictions, almost 3 times that of white people.

Did you not notice that those figures show that:

a) if you eradicated all black crime you would still have a massive crime problem very similar size to the current problem

b) that 'blacks' are per capita already 6 times more like to be stopped and searched than whites but actually per capita only 2.4 times guilty

c) 'blacks' are overwhelmingly innocent

Persecuting innocents for their ethnicity is not way to end crime or build a decent society.

[Nick]

The point is, if you only look (or at least overly focus on) at a certain segment of the population for crimes you are bound to skew the results.

If you then use the fact that the segment in question has a higher conviction rate as your justification for even greater scrutiny you end up in self perpetuating cycle.


The fact policing has been historically and even currently racist in it's approach is undeniable. The Steven Lawrence affair is a litteraly case study in racist assumptions in policing. It seems we haven't moved on as far as we should have from those days (acknowledging that some progress has been made)

The Steven Lawrence case was out and out racism and bias by the police and they should all be jailed. As for skewing statistics, I'm happy to have skewed stats if there are less knives on the street ergo less stabbings. These stats are played out in the U.S. also, the percentage of blacks in jail is exponentially higher than their percentage population.