How a Violent Government Bureaucracy Killed Hundreds and Hid the Evidence

[Unlucky4Sum]

What do you mean "even the DWP"?  What's so special about them?  Why would you believe them?

And you are wrong, the link did not say he had no money.  It said "had no income for food".  But as I said, there is no way they could know this, so this is a lie.  And you are lying about me insinuating anything.  I stated a possibility which you cannot disprove.

And there you go again.   Best ignored

[papasmurf]

What do you mean "even the DWP"?  What's so special about them?  Why would you believe them?

And you are wrong, the link did not say he had no money.  It said "had no income for food".  But as I said, there is no way they could know this, so this is a lie.  And you are lying about me insinuating anything.  I stated a possibility which you cannot disprove.

There is coroners report on that case in the book. With a notice to prevent further deaths at the end of it. No money for food is exactly what it states on the tin.

[Scott777]

Even the DWP eventually admitted it was at fault.  And as was clearly stated in the link:  he had no money for food.

But hey ho all you can do is malign the dead with a false insinuation of drug dealing.  How vile.

What do you mean "even the DWP"?  What's so special about them?  Why would you believe them?

And you are wrong, the link did not say he had no money.  It said "had no income for food".  But as I said, there is no way they could know this, so this is a lie.  And you are lying about me insinuating anything.  I stated a possibility which you cannot disprove.

[Unlucky4Sum]

If you mean the Errol Graham, we don't actually know why he starved.  We don't know he had no income.  We don't know why he failed to communicate with the DWP when he was needed for a review.  For all we know, he could have been selling drugs for cash, spending it all on taking harder drugs, and too messed up to bother eating.  All we are told is he suffered depression, which is easy to make up.  So we know virtually nothing.  So this is not evidence of the DWP being at fault.

Even the DWP eventually admitted it was at fault.  And as was clearly stated in the link:  he had no money for food.

But hey ho all you can do is malign the dead with a false insinuation of drug dealing.  How vile.

[Scott777]

As the 'starved to death' case above shows, they may not have known but they damn well should have known 

If you mean the Errol Graham, we don't actually know why he starved.  We don't know he had no income.  We don't know why he failed to communicate with the DWP when he was needed for a review.  For all we know, he could have been selling drugs for cash, spending it all on taking harder drugs, and too messed up to bother eating.  All we are told is he suffered depression, which is easy to make up.  So we know virtually nothing.  So this is not evidence of the DWP being at fault.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Have you any examples of the DWP withholding payments when they know the claimant was due the payment?

Cromwell has pretty much covered this.  The DWP set targets for sanctioning claimants and pretty much didn't care how they were achieved.  And when case after case showed they were making wrong decisions and denying claimants fair timely right of appeals they just carried on doing same.  The official review committees kept drawing the DWP's attention to this and they still didn't change.

As the 'starved to death' case above shows, they may not have known but they damn well should have known but all they seemingly cared about was they'd managed to sanction another claimant.  Someone probably got a bonus for meeting their sanction targets, the guy concerned got a coffin.

[cromwell]

Why was this person not helped by anyone? If you know about the case how is it that you didn't help?

I did know and help that's how I know it to be correct,the stop the benefits and they'll come running straight from the horses mouth.

Attitude's like that are not confined to the dwp either it happens with parts of the nhs.

[Nick]

Well TBF Nick I personally know that the dwp have summarily stopped benefits due to incompetence and a couldn't give a stuff attitude where they said stop all the benefits they'll soon come running,this was to a person with a learning disability who will never be in a position to recover or live a normal life.

Why was this person not helped by anyone? If you know about the case how is it that you didn't help?

[cromwell]

Have you any examples of the DWP withholding payments when they know the claimant was due the payment?

Well TBF Nick I personally know that the dwp have summarily stopped benefits due to incompetence and a couldn't give a stuff attitude where they said stop all the benefits they'll soon come running,this was to a person with a learning disability who will never be in a position to recover or live a normal life.

[Nick]

What if the DWP knowingly makes those issues worse by unreasonably denying them the money they need for food, heating and rent?

I'd say that makes the DWP culpable.  I'm not alone in that.

Have you any examples of the DWP withholding payments when they know the claimant was due the payment?

[Scott777]

FFS it is collated factual evidence. There are literally hundred of links to official data, official memos.
If you and others here prefer to remain in ignorance of a national scandal that has been happening since 1992 fair enough. But when the shit hits the fan over it, don't state you were ignorant of it.

"Official data, official memos".  You mean the government want you to think everyone needs more social help.  That's more socialism, which in practice means more control.  Why would you trust that?  Just because the government says so does not make it fact.

[Unlucky4Sum]

FFS it is collated factual evidence. There are literally hundred of links to official data, official memos.
If you and others here prefer to remain in ignorance of a national scandal that has been happening since 1992 fair enough. But when the shit hits the fan over it, don't state you were ignorant of it.

Seems millions of others couldn't give a rats arse about this book with its dishonest title.  Currently 8,522nd in Amazon's selling list

[papasmurf]

There are a million books I could read.  If you expect someone to read the one you choose, you should have a good reason.  So what does the book link to?  More media articles that prove nothing?  Give an example.

FFS it is collated factual evidence. There are literally hundred of links to official data, official memos. 
If you and others here prefer to remain in ignorance of a national scandal that has been happening since 1992 fair enough. But when the shit hits the fan over it, don't state you were ignorant of it.

[Scott777]

The book is a collation of links that are public domain. The collation is the result of over 30 years of the Benefits Agency/ DWP using a fatally flawed test for fitness for work, that was subject to a successful class action against Unum Provident  for wrongfully denying legitimate claims on their medical insurance.
Despite that Peter Lilley got into bed with Unum used that discredited test and it is still being used.
That is fact not fiction and hundreds if not thousands have died because of it. 700 suicides on Ian Duncan Smith time at the DWP. That is documented fact.
It is a national scandal.
If you cannot be bothered to read the book you are in no positions to criticise it.

There are a million books I could read.  If you expect someone to read the one you choose, you should have a good reason.  So what does the book link to?  More media articles that prove nothing?  Give an example.

[Unlucky4Sum]

People don't commit suicide because of benefits, they commit suicide due to mental health issues, and that is not the DWP's responsibility.

What if the DWP knowingly makes those issues worse by unreasonably denying them the money they need for food, heating and rent?

I'd say that makes the DWP culpable.  I'm not alone in that.