How a Violent Government Bureaucracy Killed Hundreds and Hid the Evidence

Started by papasmurf, August 27, 2024, 11:12:53 AM

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Nick

Quote from: Unlucky4Sum on September 02, 2024, 12:20:37 PM
Nope, certainly not the 2nd paragraph in either link

Both links say he starved to death after the DWP cut off his money for food.  As the second paragraph of one says:

'It was June 2018 when bailiffs came to Errol Graham's flat to evict him and discovered that he was dead. Errol was penniless—he had no gas, no electricity and no water. His only food was two out-of-date cans of fish. At his 2019 inquest, the coroner confirmed that Errol had weighed four and a half stone when he died, and that the cause of death was starvation. He was 57 years old.'
You're now just being pedantic. 

The documents would have shown that the DWP knew Errol had been experiencing significant mental distress just three years before his employment and support allowance (ESA) was suddenly withdrawn by the department when he failed to attend an assessment in the autumn of 2017.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Unlucky4Sum

Quote from: Nick on September 02, 2024, 09:35:13 AM
Second paragraph is states he had severe mental health issues, and that is ultimately killed him, not the DWP.
Nope, certainly not the 2nd paragraph in either link

Both links say he starved to death after the DWP cut off his money for food.  As the second paragraph of one says:

'It was June 2018 when bailiffs came to Errol Graham's flat to evict him and discovered that he was dead. Errol was penniless—he had no gas, no electricity and no water. His only food was two out-of-date cans of fish. At his 2019 inquest, the coroner confirmed that Errol had weighed four and a half stone when he died, and that the cause of death was starvation. He was 57 years old.'

Nick

Quote from: papasmurf on September 02, 2024, 10:13:59 AM
Nick, the DWP cut off his benefit for no good reason, (detailed in the links I posted,) and he starved to death because of that. The DWP did kill him, ( and numerous others,) and continues to do so.
The circumstances of his death have been the subject of several detailed investigations.
The book goes into great detail, collating all official sources and it carries a trigger warning because of the harrowing details.
Your opinion is the complete opposite of very detailed analysis and official investigations.
We have had two very near misses in the village. Fortunately both people who had had their benefit cut off for no good reason were found comatose, and would have died but for local concern. The DWP got some severe criticism at the time.
No they didn't, that's a lie. He failed to attend an assessment, that was the reason. 
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

papasmurf

Quote from: Scott777 on September 02, 2024, 10:30:40 AM
Which thing is not the case?
That he did not contact the DWP he did and was ignored. (As were other factors.) Which is all in the official investigations including a second coroners report because the DWP withheld evidence from the first one.


MPs raise concerns over DWP death evidence 'cover-up' | Disability Rights UK

M
on 5th June 2023


MPs have raised concerns over the actions of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), after it hid vital evidence from a statutory safeguarding review into a disabled man who starved to death after his benefits were wrongly stopped, the Disability News Service (DNS) has reported.
Nottingham City Safeguarding Adults Board found that the DWP failed to share key documents with the independent consultant who carried out the review into the death of Errol Graham.
The documents would have shown that the DWP knew Errol had been experiencing significant mental distress just three years before his employment and support allowance (ESA) was suddenly withdrawn by the department when he failed to attend an assessment in the autumn of 2017.
Alison Burton, Errol's daughter-in-law, who has fought for years for justice in the wake of his death, said last week that DWP's behaviour was "absolutely disgraceful" and "a cover-up".
Now the Commons Work and Pensions Select Committee has told Disability News Service (DNS) it is considering taking action.
But it also raised concerns about the DWP's continuing failure to sign a legal agreement with the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) that would force the department to improve its treatment of Disabled claimants.

Nemini parco qui vivit in orbe

Scott777

Quote from: papasmurf on September 02, 2024, 10:18:35 AM
That is not the case, detailed in several consequent investigations. His letters was ignored and the DWP did not carry out any checks on his welfare.

Which thing is not the case?
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.

Scott777

Quote from: papasmurf on September 02, 2024, 10:13:59 AM
Nick, the DWP cut off his benefit for no good reason, (detailed in the links I posted,) and he starved to death because of that. The DWP did kill him, ( and numerous others,) and continues to do so.

They cut his benefit because he failed to respond to communications.  That's quite a good reason.  Saying the DWP killed him is like saying everyone killed by lightning is a person killed by the government because they failed to provide a full rubber suit for everyone.  Just because you love the nanny state, you make everything their responsibility.
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.

papasmurf

Quote from: Scott777 on September 02, 2024, 10:13:40 AMhe failed to communicate with the DWP and was incapable of getting help, 
That is not the case, detailed in several consequent investigations. His letters was ignored and the DWP did not carry out any checks on his welfare.
Nemini parco qui vivit in orbe

Scott777

Quote from: Unlucky4Sum on September 01, 2024, 10:48:02 PM
None so blind as they that will not see

Ah, but I did see as soon as someone provided evidence.  I prefer: "none so blind as they that lack critical thinking."  😉
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.

papasmurf

Quote from: Nick on September 02, 2024, 09:35:13 AM
Second paragraph is states he had severe mental health issues, and that is ultimately killed him, not the DWP.
Nick, the DWP cut off his benefit for no good reason, (detailed in the links I posted,) and he starved to death because of that. The DWP did kill him, ( and numerous others,) and continues to do so.
The circumstances of his death have been the subject of several detailed investigations.
The book goes into great detail, collating all official sources and it carries a trigger warning because of the harrowing details. 
Your opinion is the complete opposite of very detailed analysis and official investigations. 
We have had two very near misses in the village. Fortunately both people who had had their benefit cut off for no good reason were found comatose, and would have died but for local concern. The DWP got some severe criticism at the time. 

Nemini parco qui vivit in orbe

Scott777

Quote from: papasmurf on September 02, 2024, 08:14:52 AM
It is public domain, in some cases there may be a fee, and referenced in the book.

Some background. (The DWP trying to hide things yet again.)

Errol Graham: DWP and Safeguarding Adults Board Inquir - Hansard - UK Parliament

Court case regarding Errol Graham to be heard | Leigh Day


Finally, some actual evidence.  But not quite what has been claimed.  So he had no money, but he failed to communicate with the DWP and was incapable of getting help, as Nick says, because of severe mental health.  No one "killed" him, although he should have been helped by the NHS.  It doesn't surprise me the NHS failed, because they are corrupted by big pharma.
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.

Nick

Quote from: papasmurf on September 02, 2024, 08:14:52 AM
It is public domain, in some cases there may be a fee, and referenced in the book.

Some background. (The DWP trying to hide things yet again.)

Errol Graham: DWP and Safeguarding Adults Board Inquir - Hansard - UK Parliament

Court case regarding Errol Graham to be heard | Leigh Day
Second paragraph is states he had severe mental health issues, and that is ultimately killed him, not the DWP. 
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

papasmurf

Nemini parco qui vivit in orbe

Unlucky4Sum

Quote from: Scott777 on September 01, 2024, 09:43:01 PM
That's ok.  It's best to ignore when you have a weak argument.  😉  I just think it's important for people to provide evidence of their claims, rather than propagate lies. 
None so blind as they that will not see

Scott777

Quote from: Unlucky4Sum on September 01, 2024, 07:20:37 PM
And there you go again.  Best ignored

That's ok.  It's best to ignore when you have a weak argument.  😉  I just think it's important for people to provide evidence of their claims, rather than propagate lies.  
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.

Scott777

Quote from: papasmurf on September 01, 2024, 06:08:36 PM
There is coroners report on that case in the book. With a notice to prevent further deaths at the end of it. No money for food is exactly what it states on the tin.

Where's the report?
Those princes who have done great things have held good faith of little account, and have known how to craftily circumvent the intellect of men.  Niccolò Machiavelli.