Road Pricing to replace fuel duty.

[Nick]

And if Go Compare or Compare the Market can't give you a better rate then why can't you accept that maybe that reflects the actual losses + management costs + single digit profit margin

Think you should follow the thread instead of asking me to accept things. 

[Barry]

Nick was referring to Vehicle Excise licence which is £117 for motor cycles over 600cc. The thread isn't really about insurance.

[papasmurf]

And if Go Compare or Compare the Market can't give you a better rate then why can't you accept that maybe that reflects the actual losses + management costs + single digit profit margin

Motorcycle insurance is rocketing in the same way car insurance is. My wife and I are lucky in that we are both geriatrics and live in a low insurance area.

[Unlucky4Sum]

£117 for my bike robbing bastards.

And if Go Compare or Compare the Market can't give you a better rate then why can't you accept that maybe that reflects the actual losses + management costs + single digit profit margin

[Nick]

I have just had the VED  through for my ancient 1.3 litre Toyota Yaris. £255. You may be in for a shock.

£117 for my bike robbing bastards. 

[BeElBeeBub]

back on topicYou might as well try and push water back upstream.  Any system based on measured mileage will be fiddleable and suffer from that eternal unequal struggle of one designer creates, a million people try to defeat.  Increasing tax on electricity would be the 'green' thing to do but electoral suicide. Toll charges on main roads are a recipe for rat run nightmares for residential roads and unlikely to be great electorally.

So I expect to see a mish mash of poorly thought out increases in VED, random toll roads and a car clocker's paradise.

It is ever so. 

Measured mileage is only fiddle able if you can fiddle the odometer.

Yes, people can and will do that, though it may get harder as governments mandate the value is less easy to change.

But any other system would also be open to abuse. Balckboxes coukd be tampered with, GPS trackers disabled with foil over receivers, anpr cameras spoofed with fake number plates,

People get around fuel duty now (red diesel) 

Ultimately it will be down to the honesty of the MOT checking stations to check the mileage and detect if there.are signs of tampering (seals broken, differnt ecu fitted etc). 

So some losses will be expected, but the trade off is how much you would lose from fuel duty not being paid on electricity.

Charging based on vehicle indicated mileage may be the easiest system to implement. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

back on topic

 . .  
In short, whilst it may be a but if a change for many, I can see pricing based on miles traveled as a much fairer way if taxing road use, and (if using the annual. Mot milage method) not too. Difficult to. Implement as there is no. Additional. Infrastructure to supply black boxes etx

We would need to make "clocking" harder and more of a penalty.

You might as well try and push water back upstream.  Any system based on measured mileage will be fiddleable and suffer from that eternal unequal struggle of one designer creates, a million people try to defeat.  Increasing tax on electricity would be the 'green' thing to do but electoral suicide. Toll charges on main roads are a recipe for rat run nightmares for residential roads and unlikely to be great electorally.

So I expect to see a mish mash of poorly thought out increases in VED, random toll roads and a car clocker's paradise. 

[BeElBeeBub]

well i suppose i'm all for it

with a disconnected speedometer cable and the satnav based speed i'll be paying £0 a year. Capital

I mean, bully for you. 

Modern cars are a bit harder to fool than that and I suspect they would bring in harsher penalties for clocking cars.

Obviously people will always try to evade paying their fair share of taxes. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

I have just had the VED  through for my ancient 1.3 litre Toyota Yaris. £255. You may be in for a shock.

Surprising.  I just paid only £190 for my turbo nutter Mercedes

[johnofgwent]

well i suppose i'm all for it

with a disconnected speedometer cable and the satnav based speed i'll be paying £0 a year. Capital

[BeElBeeBub]

If we must have this system, OK, then scrap the Vehicle Excise Duty and charge everyone 2p a mile.
As an example I do ~8000 miles a year, so it would cost £160 a year, similar to current VEL rate.

Other heavier users would pay a lot more, which could  be seen as fairer considering damage to surfaces being greater.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would say motorists are already being squeezed enough, so my suggestion would be to scrap the vehicle excise duty and raise all the tax from extra fuel duty, except for electric cars. This would ensure road users pay according to fuel consumption, reflecting both their usage in miles and their pollution of the air with high consumption engines. No exemptions. Purely electric vehicles could be charged £400 per year VEL to reflect the road damage caused by these heavier cars and heavy duty tyres.

Having said all this, none of these taxes are ring fenced are they. It's just extra cash in the Treasury coffers?

I think it might be more than 2p a mile.
If you 8k a year in a 45mlg car that's about £400 a year in fuel duty.
So you would probably looking at 5p a mile as a. Staring point.

Of. Course, we coild vary the price as you say. Weight would certainly be a component - as would emissions.

So a big diesel pickup might pay more per mile than a light petrol saloon car, and a light electric car might pay even less vs a heavy electric car.

One of the car trends that needs to go is the increasingly large and heavy cars with excess performance. A 4ton pickup that can do subs 3. 5s 0-60.... Is nuts.

So. If we. Charge those. Who can afford such a. compensation car. £1 a. Mile, so much the better. 


(and yes,. Fuel duty and road tax are not ring fenced) .

[papasmurf]

If we must have this system, OK, then scrap the Vehicle Excise Duty and charge everyone 2p a mile.
As an example I do ~8000 miles a year, so it would cost £160 a year, similar to current VEL rate.

I have just had the VED  through for my ancient 1.3 litre Toyota Yaris. £255. You may be in for a shock.

[Barry]

If we must have this system, OK, then scrap the Vehicle Excise Duty and charge everyone 2p a mile.
As an example I do ~8000 miles a year, so it would cost £160 a year, similar to current VEL rate.

Other heavier users would pay a lot more, which could  be seen as fairer considering damage to surfaces being greater.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would say motorists are already being squeezed enough, so my suggestion would be to scrap the vehicle excise duty and raise all the tax from extra fuel duty, except for electric cars. This would ensure road users pay according to fuel consumption, reflecting both their usage in miles and their pollution of the air with high consumption engines. No exemptions. Purely electric vehicles could be charged £400 per year VEL to reflect the road damage caused by these heavier cars and heavy duty tyres.

Having said all this, none of these taxes are ring fenced are they. It's just extra cash in the Treasury coffers?

[BeElBeeBub]

Annual motoring bill need not necessarily rise — depends on what level the mileage charge is set and other charges — eg, like France, the annual road fund licence could be scrapped and more fairly applied to miles driven...

Exactly, if done correctly (big iff) people with smaller, cheaper cars could pay less whilst those who can afford a. Brand new V8 range rover or F150 pay more. Honestly, if you're. Driving one of those, you can't complain about the cost. 

It would also allow for more direct and accurate claiming back of taxes for work/disability etc. At the moment there is no easy way of telling exactly how much fuel duty you paid. 

With this they would know exactly how much you paid and could reapply a differnt p/mile. Schedule if you were a business etc and then calculate the rebate. 

[BeElBeeBub]

That would mean a huge lump sum annual bill

True, which is why i suggested it being paid via the road tax which can be paid monthly by DD.

.

It would also penalise those in rural areas who often live long distances away from good and services. 

They already pay more through higher fuel costs (remember I suggested getting rid of fuel duty).

Potentially they could pay less if their car was.a.lower rated per mile vehicle. 

This would also get around the issue of red diesel.