Some numbers on pensions and the winter fuel payment

[BeElBeeBub]

Income tax allowance isn't the same for all.

Its only smaller if you earn over 100k and I don't think any pensioners in that bracket need to worry about losing the winter fuel allowance. 

[papasmurf]

Proof please that people were profligate with their money in the main in large numbers and that that's why they didn't save for their pensions?

Rents are extremely high, food prices are high, the cost of living is ridiculous in general, utilities are sky high - how are people supposed to be able to afford to live? These things have cost a lot for well over 14 years now. Did people who are struggling really frequent pubs in such large numbers they couldn't save for their pensions? Seeing from the outside whilst walking past they often look empty or so I noticed in my hometown last I was there in 2023 (not that you'd want to go in most of them even if you could afford it, unless you like a good brawl and having to bottle drugged up loonybin cases to get out in one piece)

Precisely. There are some very blinkered people in Britain. They really do not have a clue how bad the situation is for millions of people. 14 years of Tory government has damaged millions of people lives. (Thus far unless Labour pulls some rabbits out a a hat, they are carrying on where the Tories left off.)

I would like to know where all these crowded pubs are, other than perhaps one night a week. Many have now got restricted hours and/or closed several days a week.

[Borg Refinery]

Now you're just playing games. People could have chosen to go to the pub every day or have 3 holidays a year instead of preparing for old age. Those who decided to be sensible are being punished.

Proof please that people were profligate with their money in the main in large numbers and that that's why they didn't save for their pensions?

Rents are extremely high, food prices are high, the cost of living is ridiculous in general, utilities are sky high - how are people supposed to be able to afford to live? These things have cost a lot for well over 14 years now. Did people who are struggling really frequent pubs in such large numbers they couldn't save for their pensions? Seeing from the outside whilst walking past they often look empty or so I noticed in my hometown last I was there in 2023 (not that you'd want to go in most of them even if you could afford it, unless you like a good brawl and having to bottle drugged up loonybin cases to get out in one piece)

[papasmurf]

Congratulations on a link to ONE of the available tax codes, mine is 1163L. Just admit you're wrong for once and be done with it.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-codes

That £12570 is the basic tax allowance for ALL tax payers Nick. Your tax code takes into account extra allowances you may be entitled to. I am NOT wrong Nick YOU are.

[Nick]

Well no worries, I'm sure those who spent as they earned because they had no choice can be recast as layabouts if the right wing media says so

Number of Britons without savings jumps by more than one million in a year

Don't think everyone gets a choice in whether they pay their stamps or lives paycheck to paycheck, I also wouldn't begrudge those with lifelong disabilities who can't work and lived their lives on benefits given they were unable to work, but I'm sure if Farage could get in power he could spend all their money for them on lavish dinners with Trump

Now you're just playing games. People could have chosen to go to the pub every day or have 3 holidays a year instead of preparing for old age. Those who decided to be sensible are being punished. 

[Nick]

Income Tax rates and Personal Allowances : Current rates and allowances - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The standard Personal Allowance is £12,570, which is the amount of income you do not have to pay tax on.

Congratulations on a link to ONE of the available tax codes, mine is 1163L. Just admit you're wrong for once and be done with it. 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-codes

[Borg Refinery]

How anyone can justify taking money off old people is beyond me . Anyone that has saved a few quid , been responsible in putting away an emergency fund or saved a few pennies for the grandchildren won't get it . Layabouts who have spent their lives on benefits ,those who haven't paid their stamps and those who have spent as they earned  will .
Rumour has it the bus pass will be next , Old granny's who's only joy in life is going for a ride on a bus ,  bastards . And all so they can service the unions demands for pay rises , what a weak cowardly bastard we have allowed into government .

I predict a riot

Well no worries, I'm sure those who spent as they earned because they had no choice can be recast as layabouts if the right wing media says so

Number of Britons without savings jumps by more than one million in a year

Don't think everyone gets a choice in whether they pay their stamps or lives paycheck to paycheck, I also wouldn't begrudge those with lifelong disabilities who can't work and lived their lives on benefits given they were unable to work, but I'm sure if Farage could get in power he could spend all their money for them on lavish dinners with Trump

[papasmurf]

Income tax allowance isn't the same for all.

Income Tax rates and Personal Allowances : Current rates and allowances - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The standard Personal Allowance is £12,570, which is the amount of income you do not have to pay tax on.

[Nick]

The income tax allowance is the same for all. The rise in the State Pension has in my wife and I's and many others case has been totally negated by the loss of the winter fuel allowance and the income tax on our small private pensions.

Income tax allowance isn't the same for all. 

[cromwell]

As you say, everyone gets caught by it.

Pensioners are no worse (except in the sense a greater % of their income is usually tax free).

Last year pensioners got an inflation rise, this year a wages rise (so above inflation)

So whilst I do think the cut is a bit of a blunt tool, and there will be some who are denied it where it would have helped a bit I don't think the cut itself is a bad idea

Personally I would have done it via the tax system. If your taxable income is over X (let's say 25k) then you start paying back the payment you had at a rate of 10p per pound of income. So by 28k you've paid it all back. Seems much fairer.

No it's not fair at all,still they've got all those hotel bills to pay for and furnishing apartments at a cost we're not allowed to know.

[papasmurf]

Pensioners are no worse (except in the sense a greater % of their income is usually tax free).

The income tax allowance is the same for all. The rise in the State Pension has in my wife and I's and many others case has been totally negated by the loss of the winter fuel allowance and the income tax on our small private pensions.

[BeElBeeBub]

The income tax allowance has been frozen, so millions of people (not just pensioners,) will be paying more income tax over time. In my case last year I paid £150 tax on my small private pension, this year it will be £600 add to that the loss of the £300 winter fuel allowance and I will be £900 worse off. (Which totally negates the rise in the state pension.)
I am watching the debate in the House of Commons and the Labour government has not carried out the required impact assessment for such welfare changes.

As you say, everyone gets caught by it. 

Pensioners are no worse (except in the sense a greater % of their income is usually tax free).

Last year pensioners got an inflation rise, this year a wages rise (so above inflation)

So whilst I do think the cut is a bit of a blunt tool, and there will be some who are denied it where it would have helped a bit I don't think the cut itself is a bad idea

Personally I would have done it via the tax system. If your taxable income is over X (let's say 25k) then you start paying back the payment you had at a rate of 10p per pound of income. So by 28k you've paid it all back. Seems much fairer. 

[Streetwalker]

How anyone can justify taking money off old people is beyond me . Anyone that has saved a few quid , been responsible in putting away an emergency fund or saved a few pennies for the grandchildren won't get it . Layabouts who have spent their lives on benefits ,those who haven't paid their stamps and those who have spent as they earned  will .
Rumour has it the bus pass will be next , Old granny's who's only joy in life is going for a ride on a bus ,  bastards . And all so they can service the unions demands for pay rises , what a weak cowardly bastard we have allowed into government .

I predict a riot 

[papasmurf]

By fiscal drag you mean your income has risen (presumably because your pensions etc have some sort of index link) into the tax bracket above where you were?

When you say your lose £1k is your after tax income less than it was before?

The income tax allowance has been frozen, so millions of people (not just pensioners,) will be paying more income tax over time. In my case last year I paid £150 tax on my small private pension, this year it will be £600 add to that the loss of the £300 winter fuel allowance and I will be £900 worse off. (Which totally negates the rise in the state pension.)
I am watching the debate in the House of Commons and the Labour government has not carried out the required impact assessment for such welfare changes.

[BeElBeeBub]

The problem is fiscal drag has cost OAPs with meagre private pensions a lot of money in income tax. In my wife and I's case will lose the winter fuel allowance and over £1000 due to fiscal drag. (Many people are losing a lot more.)

By fiscal drag you mean your income has risen (presumably because your pensions etc have some sort of index link) into the tax bracket above where you were?

When you say your lose £1k is your after tax income less than it was before?