Some numbers on pensions and the winter fuel payment

[papasmurf]

Those pensioners are gonna go apeshit if their benefits are cut.

They already have.

[BeElBeeBub]

The triple lock at this point is an empty promise.

We should radically cut foreign aid and reduce welfare spending to zero.

Those pensioners are gonna go apeshit if their benefits are cut. 

[papasmurf]

The triple lock at this point is an empty promise.

We should radically cut foreign aid and reduce welfare spending to zero.

Cut welfare spending to zero? That is trolling.

[HallowedBrexit]

The triple lock at this point is an empty promise.

We should radically cut foreign aid and reduce welfare spending to zero.

[BeElBeeBub]

Wrong. Learn to read it properly.

The fact is they are giving more to Ukrainians than they took away from our own pensioners and it's not a good look.

You realise that the vast majority of military aid to Ukraine consists of us digging old stuff out of our stockpile, or stuff that is due for decommissioning etc and then the money "sent" to Ukraine is the money earmarked for the back filling of those stocks. As a lot of the stocks are back filled with weapons contain a UK component the money is flowing to the UK. And the UK military is getting the newer variant stuff.

As a bonus we degrading our most likley opposition without risking a single UK soldier. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Yes, Age UK are wrong about the 2mil who will go without heating - you clearly have better statistics than they do

You said 'destitute' so if there are any they will be the ones that will still qualify for WFA

But then you're making up false exaggerated accounts of what Age UK are actually saying.  Here read:  https://www.ageuk.org.uk/latest-press/articles/2024/help-us-save-winter-fuel-payment-for-struggling-pensioners-says-age-uk/  

No claim that 2 million will go without heating.  

[Borg Refinery]

Yes, Age UK are wrong about the 2mil who will go without heating - you clearly have better statistics than they do

[Unlucky4Sum]

 . .You can't tell people that Ukraine deserves more money than destitute pensioners, you just can't. It's morally wrong and I don't care if a million people told me it was right - I would insist I am right

The 'destitute pensioners' (if such exist) are not having their WFA removed

[Unlucky4Sum]

I inferred what, where and when?

You posted this in rebuttal of my post.

Plenty of labour members made the promise of protecting the wfp and triple lock immediately before the election,in any event you ignore what neutral observers say and that the money saved is a drop in the ocean and it looks little more than pure spite.

[Borg Refinery]

You perhaps misunderstand me.

It makes sense to send Ukraine money, it doesn't make sense to send Ukraine money and NOT send money to pensioners who won't be able to heat their homes because of the cuts - when it's a relatively small cost

That absolute spanner, Lucy Powell, the leader of the commons genuinely believes this utter crapola

The UK could have faced a run on the pound and an economic crash if Rachel Reeves had not axed winter fuel payments for millions of pensioners to fill a black hole in the public finances, Commons Leader Lucy Powell said.

Ms Reeves and Sir Keir Starmer have faced criticism from opponents, campaigners and some of their own MPs over the decision to means-test the payments worth up to £300.

But Ms Powell said there was "no alternative" and the decision was needed to avoid an economic catastrophe.

"This is one of those very difficult decisions we had to take," she told Times Radio.

Rachel Reeves faced criticism for the decision to cut winter fuel allowance (Lucy North/PA)
"But we have faced this huge additional black hole for this current financial year, borrowing higher than anybody understood.

"If we hadn't taken some of these tough decisions we could have seen a run on the pound, interest rates going up and crashing the economy.

"It's something we were left with no alternative but to do."

These people have no idea what they are doing

You can't tell people that Ukraine deserves more money than destitute pensioners, you just can't. It's morally wrong and I don't care if a million people told me it was right - I would insist I am right

[Nick]

It's true that it doesn't make sense to send such money to Ukraine and deprive pensioners, and I mostly support Ukraine

It does make sense, we are an island and are about as far away from Russia within Europe as it possible to be. Russia is our enemy and are a threat, Ukraine is in effect fighting on our behalf and the cost to us is about a 10th of what it would be if we were actively engaged in war.

[Borg Refinery]

The obvious difference being even the Tories didn't cancel WFP for pensioners, that's the difference..

I don't want it to look like I'm defending the Tories, because I'm not.

[Borg Refinery]

That's just pedantry at its worst, it was Keir Starmer pledging that so you're just splitting hairs over nothing now.

Earlier this year, Prime Minister Keir Starmer committed to providing £3 billion a year in military support to Ukraine for as long as necessary.
Lammy said: "The UK's support to Ukraine is unwavering. Our commitment of over £600 million worth of support is the latest installment in our enduring support to Ukraine.
"This will provide vital support to Ukrainians as they continue to endure relentless Russian attacks."

Furthermore, that 3bn a year commitment was originally started under the Tory govt I believe.

The UK has promised £3bn a year "for as long as it is necessary" to help Ukraine, David Cameron said on Thursday as he made his second visit to Kyiv since becoming UK foreign secretary.

He also said he had no objection if weapons supplied by the UK were used to strike inside Russia.

Lord Cameron – who met the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, and the foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, on his trip – has made securing extra arms for Ukraine one of his top priorities as foreign secretary. His announcement is the UK's biggest spending pledge since Russia's full-scale invasion in 2022.

In January the UK prime minister, Rishi Sunak, pledged £2.5bn in military aid to Ukraine for 2024-25, an increase of £200m on the previous two years. He gave no commitment beyond that date.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/02/david-cameron-commits-3bn-a-year-in-aid-to-ukraine-for-as-long-as-necessary

[papasmurf]

Wrong. Learn to read it properly.

It was not Lammy promising that.

[Borg Refinery]

Steve:

Contrary to your inference I have not supported this WFA policy as currently planned.  It's politically naive, introduces yet another cliff edge loss of income (in effect marginal tax rates well over 100%) and the threshold is set too low.

Well good then, so why not state that in advance so folks don't end up arguing about something we mostly agree on..?