Anyone spot the problem with this article?

[papasmurf]

No, I've never missed a meeting,

Lucky you, getting to an appointment at a JobCentre Plus Office is more difficult than you realise. The number of JCP offices where interviews are carried out is now limited and also many have been closed.
JCP are also frankly bastards and take benefit away on a whim. Disabled people and those with no transport have difficulty getting to JCP appointments. 

[Nick]

Theres a lot of of reasons people can miss an interview

Have you never missed an appointment?

Delayed train/bus/traffic? Sick or caring for some who is sick. Childcare, not aware of appointment because of wrong contact info, couldn't afford travel etc etc.

Just to put things in context, over 1m GP appointments are missed in thr same 4 week. Period. Does that show that people don't want to see their GP?

No, I've never missed a meeting, and I've only had one week off work through illness in the last 15 years, that was a ruptured Appendix in March this year. 
People make GP appointments when they've got a bit of a cold, they then don't go because they feel a bit better, slightly different than not showing up for a mandatory appointment. 

[Nick]

Again, I point out that there aren't that many people unemployed and unemployment benefits are not a big chunk of our costs

See those two green dots.... That's the unemployment bill.

Guess what the biggest state benefit is.....

(figures from. 2016-17)

7 year old data, really?
Also the orange are just says Benefits, what does that mean exactly?  Not the best set of data is it. 

[cromwell]

That is not a reason to assume that all British workers are bone idle, that is VERY nasty generalisation and an insult to many millions of people.

And that is a very nasty generalisation because I didn't say all British workers or millions did I.

[BeElBeeBub]

Again, I point out that there aren't that many people unemployed and unemployment benefits are not a big chunk of our costs

See those two green dots.... That's the unemployment bill.

Guess what the biggest state benefit is.....

(figures from. 2016-17)

[BeElBeeBub]

And those stats prove the point that was being made: 24,000 in 4 weeks didn't attend mandatory interviews. Because they are bone idle.

Theres a lot of of reasons people can miss an interview

Have you never missed an appointment?

Delayed train/bus/traffic? Sick or caring for some who is sick. Childcare, not aware of appointment because of wrong contact info, couldn't afford travel etc etc. 

Just to put things in context, over 1m GP appointments are missed in thr same 4 week. Period. Does that show that people don't want to see their GP? 

[Nick]

If claimants do not follow the claimant commitment their benefit is taken away.  Frankly I take ANY comment by JobCentre Plus staff with a very big grain of salt.

That is why I stick to data.

Benefit sanctions statistics to May 2024 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


The statistics show:
in May 2024, 6.17% of UC claimants who were in the conditionality regimes where sanctions can be applied, were undergoing a sanction on the count date. The UC sanction rate is down by 0.4 percentage points from February 2024 and is down by 0.5 percentage points in the latest 12 months   
in May 2024, 29.0% of UC claimants were in the conditionality regimes where sanctions can be applied
failure to attend or participate in a mandatory interview accounted for 93.7% of all adverse sanction decisions in the last year and 91.3% in the latest quarter
in May 2024 there were 24,000 completed sanctions in the 4 weeks to 13 weeks sanction duration band and 4,000 completed sanctions in the over 26 weeks sanction duration band
in April 2024, of those who declared their ethnicity, 73% of claimants with adverse sanction decisions were from the White ethnic group. The Asian or Asian British were 9% and Black, Caribbean and Black British were 9%. 5% were Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups and 4% were in the Other Ethnic Group

And those stats prove the point that was being made: 24,000 in 4 weeks didn't attend mandatory interviews. Because they are bone idle. 

[papasmurf]

Speaking to a friend of mine that works at the JobCentre, it isn't just a few.

If claimants do not follow the claimant commitment their benefit is taken away.  Frankly I take ANY comment by JobCentre Plus staff with a very big grain of salt.

That is why I stick to data.

Benefit sanctions statistics to May 2024 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


The statistics show:
in May 2024, 6.17% of UC claimants who were in the conditionality regimes where sanctions can be applied, were undergoing a sanction on the count date. The UC sanction rate is down by 0.4 percentage points from February 2024 and is down by 0.5 percentage points in the latest 12 months   
in May 2024, 29.0% of UC claimants were in the conditionality regimes where sanctions can be applied
failure to attend or participate in a mandatory interview accounted for 93.7% of all adverse sanction decisions in the last year and 91.3% in the latest quarter
in May 2024 there were 24,000 completed sanctions in the 4 weeks to 13 weeks sanction duration band and 4,000 completed sanctions in the over 26 weeks sanction duration band
in April 2024, of those who declared their ethnicity, 73% of claimants with adverse sanction decisions were from the White ethnic group. The Asian or Asian British were 9% and Black, Caribbean and Black British were 9%. 5% were Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups and 4% were in the Other Ethnic Group

[Nick]

We have a few Brits like that.  To say that is THE problem would be very wrong.

Firstly, Cromwell didn't give a figure, he just said we have Brits unwilling to work, secondly, you can't possible know how many layabouts we actually have. Speaking to a friend of mine that works at the JobCentre, it isn't just a few. 

[Nick]

You have no idea how angry comments like that make me. I often suspect people with that opinion would no know what hard work is. Personally I worked 60-80 hours week for decades and so did most of my peer group.

As you tell everyone, your personal experience means nothing, and just because you haven't experienced bone idle people doesn't mean they don't exist. 

[BeElBeeBub]

There seems to be some persistent myths

- there are oceans of brits sitting around idle, too lazy or proud to do "menial" jobs. 
- previous generations were harder working 

Some facts. 

The unemployment rate is 3.8%. That's low. Economists generally reckon the economy is reaching capacity when yiu start to drop below 4-5%
 
A greater % of working age population is in work than at any point in the 70's, 80's 90's and 00's.

[papasmurf]

We have a few Brits like that.  To say that is THE problem would be very wrong.

Quite. 

[papasmurf]

I've worked longer hours than you imagine Smurf

That is not a reason to assume that all British workers are bone idle, that is VERY nasty generalisation and an insult to many millions of people.

[Unlucky4Sum]

The problem is that we have Brits unwilling to get off their backsides and work,it was once called the Protestant work ethic which seems to have died a death because we really don't need to bring in immigrants we need to make people work and stop their benefits if they refuse.

We have a few Brits like that.  To say that is THE problem would be very wrong.

We have over 22 million working age Brits that are below median relevant capability yet we pretend they can all be found jobs at the National Minimum Wage or above.  They can't so employers forced to pay the NMW would rather bring in immigrants above that median capability line.

We have millions of unemployed with families and as a society we have (rightfully IMHO) decided not to break up families by having them chase transient NMW jobs hundreds of miles from their family placing housing burdens on the local authorities.

Solving those two problems would be good but very very difficult politically and not exactly easy politics aside. 

[cromwell]

You have no idea how angry comments like that make me. I often suspect people with that opinion would no know what hard work is. Personally I worked 60-80 hours week for decades and so did most of my peer group.

I've worked longer hours than you imagine Smurf