Hezbollah take a blow below the belt!

[Unlucky4Sum]

The main issue here for me is whether the victims were targeted or indiscriminate .Are all hezbollah supporters fair game or just those that pose an imminent threat ?
Depends on what devices were used . Intelligence may have been able to target victims , we don't know yet . But in war and Israel is at war the innocent die .Thats the hard fact of life and no 'international law' (which isnt actually a law but something nations are asked to adhere to ) is going to change that .
At the end of the day Israel has to do what it has to do and as Barry says its better than blowing up a whole neighbourhood . A decent article here from Marco Milanovic , (co-editor of European Journal of International law )

https://www.ejiltalk.org/were-the-israeli-pager-and-walkie-talkie-attacks-on-hezbollah-indiscriminate/

Here's another link.  The UN treaty re booby traps https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/ccw-amended-protocol-ii-1996  (the UN link refuses to connect to here)


4."Booby-trap" means any device or material which is designed, constructed or adapted to kill or
injure, and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently
harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.
. . .
. ..It is prohibited in all circumstances to use any mine, booby-trap or other device which is
designed or of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering.

[Unlucky4Sum]

They 100% targeted their victims, collateral damage doesn't mean they didn't do so.

That would be to assert that someone killed or injured just for being next to the intended target is not a victim.  And that wouldn't be true.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Good link, SW.

I think we should also remember that every one of those more than 8,000 rockets fired by Hezbollah is a war crime.

seconded on both points

[Nick]

The main issue here for me is whether the victims were targeted or indiscriminate .Are all hezbollah supporters fair game or just those that pose an imminent threat ?
Depends on what devices were used . Intelligence may have been able to target victims , we don't know yet . But in war and Israel is at war the innocent die .Thats the hard fact of life and no 'international law' (which isnt actually a law but something nations are asked to adhere to ) is going to change that .
At the end of the day Israel has to do what it has to do and as Barry says its better than blowing up a whole neighbourhood . A decent article here from Marco Milanovic , (co-editor of European Journal of International law )

https://www.ejiltalk.org/were-the-israeli-pager-and-walkie-talkie-attacks-on-hezbollah-indiscriminate/

They 100% targeted their victims, collateral damage doesn't mean they didn't do so. 

[Barry]

FFS, pagers were used. There is no way for whoever remotely detonated them that the people who had them were isolated from anyone else. In a crowded situation innocent people would be caught in the blast. (Which they were.)

How many? Please provide a source.

[papasmurf]

The main issue here for me is whether the victims were targeted or indiscriminate .Are all hezbollah supporters fair game or just those that pose an imminent threat ?
Depends on what devices were used .

FFS, pagers were used. There is no way for whoever remotely detonated them that the people who had them were isolated from anyone else. In a crowded situation innocent people would be caught in the blast. (Which they were.)

[Barry]

Good link, SW.

I think we should also remember that every one of those more than 8,000 rockets fired by Hezbollah is a war crime.

[Streetwalker]

The main issue here for me is whether the victims were targeted or indiscriminate .Are all hezbollah supporters fair game or just those that pose an imminent threat ?

My source is news and current affairs.  When the message was sent that triggered the explosions there was no way whoever did it could know the location of the devices that exploded.  Collateral human damage was inevitable.

Depends on what devices were used . Intelligence may have been able to target victims , we don't know yet . But in war and Israel is at war the innocent die .Thats the hard fact of life and no 'international law' (which isnt actually a law but something nations are asked to adhere to ) is going to change that .
At the end of the day Israel has to do what it has to do and as Barry says its better than blowing up a whole neighbourhood . A decent article here from Marco Milanovic , (co-editor of European Journal of International law )

https://www.ejiltalk.org/were-the-israeli-pager-and-walkie-talkie-attacks-on-hezbollah-indiscriminate/

[papasmurf]

And who has said there was no collateral damage? Another strawman by you.

Barry for one, and others. (Have you bothered to read the thread?)

[Unlucky4Sum]

Hi you've probably not seen it post #21 on the Al Fayed thread
Thanks

Has Barry read that?

[Nick]

I am NOT making assumptions at all. Have you not been watching the reporting? It does not matter when it comes to collateral damage when the devices explode in crowded conditions.
Frankly if you think is it possible to set off thousands of explosions albeit small ones when the location of the devices is not known, and they go off it crowded places, (which many did,) people other than the targets will be injured. Frankly it is bloody stupid to think there were no collateral injuries.

And who has said there was no collateral damage? Another strawman by you. 

[papasmurf]

You are just making incorrect assumptions. You don't have any figures and you just argue for the sake of it. They were Hezbollah pagers, no one else had them.So, I'll ask again. How large a number of people was it? (Not expecting a proper answer)

I am NOT making assumptions at all. Have you not been watching the reporting? It does not matter when it comes to collateral damage when the devices explode in crowded conditions.
Frankly if you think is it possible to set off thousands of explosions albeit small ones when the location of the devices is not known, and they go off it crowded places, (which many did,) people other than the targets will be injured. Frankly it is bloody stupid to think there were no collateral injuries. 

[cromwell]

Oh look the very posting style you get so irate about when others even get close to similar.  If I went into Barry mode I'd accuse you of being a repeat liar.

So question by question:

Perhaps you would prefer a 1000kg big bomb?  No and Israel's use of those in civilian populated urban areas is a war crime.

You see, you don't want Israel to have any success defending themselves, do you?  BS, I want Israel to defend itself within international law. 

Do you want Israel to just accept these attacks and die?  No, see above.  Those attacks on rocket launchers were OK, specific targeted attacks on combatants even in their homes and cars are OK.  But random located explosions using booby traps are rightly illegal.

More targeted killings in Beirut and beyond today. Keep up the good work, Israel. But all it's doing long term is recruiting more to their enemies.

Hi you've probably not seen it post #21 on the Al Fayed thread 
Thanks

[Unlucky4Sum]

Perhaps you would prefer a 1000kg big bomb?
You see, you don't want Israel to have any success defending themselves, do you?
Do you want Israel to just accept these attacks and die?
More targeted killings in Beirut and beyond today. Keep up the good work, Israel.

Oh look the very posting style you get so irate about when others even get close to similar.  If I went into Barry mode I'd accuse you of being a repeat liar.

So question by question:

Perhaps you would prefer a 1000kg big bomb?  No and Israel's use of those in civilian populated urban areas is a war crime.

You see, you don't want Israel to have any success defending themselves, do you?  BS, I want Israel to defend itself within international law.  

Do you want Israel to just accept these attacks and die?  No, see above.  Those attacks on rocket launchers were OK, specific targeted attacks on combatants even in their homes and cars are OK.  But random located explosions using booby traps are rightly illegal.

More targeted killings in Beirut and beyond today. Keep up the good work, Israel.  But all it's doing long term is recruiting more to their enemies.

[Barry]

My source is news and current affairs.  When the message was sent that triggered the explosions there was no way whoever did it could know the location of the devices that exploded.  Collateral human damage was inevitable.

You are just making incorrect assumptions. You don't have any figures and you just argue for the sake of it. They were Hezbollah pagers, no one else had them.

Barry why are you totally ignoring the large number of people who got injured who just happened to be nearby.

So, I'll ask again. How large a number of people was it? (Not expecting a proper answer)