Time for change?

[Scott777]

I am NOT having a Troll at all. I have no objection to people personally not wanting vaccinations. But when they use lies and propaganda to influence gullible people into believing it, it results in deaths and long term disabilities. They should be prosecuted and jailed.

Why did you even start chatting about those liars, whoever they are, and ignoring the liars who propagated how safe and effective the jabs were?  Not being jabbed does not cause anything at all.  But being jabbed can.  So you clearly have a pro-jab bias.  Care to explain?

[Borg Refinery]

I agree, they should not be hanged.  But as I say, they did not follow the science, they followed orders.  Following orders is not a defence.  Believing they were helping is not a defence.  Ignorance of the law is not a defence.  Here's the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights.

"Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information."

So even if you disregard the Nuremberg Code, this is UN agreement.

https://www.unesco.org/en/legal-affairs/universal-declaration-bioethics-and-human-rights?hub=387

They believed they were following scientific advice provided by govt hired experts, with degrees in the relevant medical fields.

They should not be jailed nor condemned for that.

[papasmurf]

I know you're just having a bit of a troll, but I notice you're keeping quiet about experimental therapies being injected into millions of people without their informed consent.  Calling people conspiracy theorists does nothing for your position, but is very weak and childish.

I am NOT having a Troll at all. I have no objection to people personally not wanting vaccinations. But when they use lies and propaganda to influence gullible people into believing it, it results in deaths and long term disabilities. They should be prosecuted and jailed.

[Scott777]

Some of them should be jailed.

I know you're just having a bit of a troll, but I notice you're keeping quiet about experimental therapies being injected into millions of people without their informed consent.  Calling people conspiracy theorists does nothing for your position, but is very weak and childish.

[Scott777]

Doctors should not be hanged or imprisoned for following imperfect and flawed Western science, they thought they were helping people. They did not mean to harm anyone.

I believe you mean well and want to protect people from the harmful effects of vaccines yourself.

I agree, they should not be hanged.  But as I say, they did not follow the science, they followed orders.  Following orders is not a defence.  Believing they were helping is not a defence.  Ignorance of the law is not a defence.  Here's the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights.

"Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information."

So even if you disregard the Nuremberg Code, this is UN agreement.

https://www.unesco.org/en/legal-affairs/universal-declaration-bioethics-and-human-rights?hub=387

[Nick]

Some of them should be jailed.

[Borg Refinery]

No, those who want to express opinions that are a little contrarian shouldn't be jailed. There's no right to free speech enshrined in law in England, it doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

They are well meaning people, well intentioned folks.

[papasmurf]

They are very good people who want to protect others from the harmful effects from experimental vaccines.

They should not be harshly critiqued

Some of them should be jailed.

[Borg Refinery]

They are no good people at all, they disseminate lies and propaganda that significant number of people are stupid enough to believe, hence the drop in vaccination levels for diseases
like measles causing significant increase in the cases of measles.

They are very good people who want to protect others from the harmful effects from experimental vaccines.

They should not be harshly critiqued

[papasmurf]

Nope, they are good people and mean the best. The nurse made a mistake and didn't mean to do that, she thought she was helping people, but should have followed guidelines at that workplace.

They are no good people at all, they disseminate lies and propaganda that significant number of people are stupid enough to believe, hence the drop in vaccination levels for diseases
like measles causing significant increase in the cases of measles.

[Borg Refinery]

The problem is the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have caused incidents like this, (the nurse was alleged  have covid and still nursing old people whilst not wearing a mask. Inquest on going.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0m044xlmxwo

1 October 2024
A nurse at a Devon care home where seven people died refused to wear a face mask because he believed Covid-19 was a conspiracy, an inquest has heard.
William Wilkinson, 102, Doris Lockett, 92, Roy Gilliam, 96, Jean Hartley, 81, Susan Skinner, 70, Ronald Bampfylde, 92, and Stanislawa Koch, 93 died between March or April 2021 at Holmesley Care Home in Sidford.
Alison Longhorn, area coroner for Devon, Plymouth and Torbay, heard all seven died after contracting the virus.
The Care Quality Commission (CQC) also carried out two visits that February and told the home it was not following personal protective equipment (PPE) guidelines, the hearing in Exeter was told. The inquest continues.

Nope, they are good people and mean the best. The nurse made a mistake and didn't mean to do that, she thought she was helping people, but should have followed guidelines at that workplace.

[papasmurf]

I believe you mean well and want to protect people from the harmful effects of vaccines yourself.

The problem is the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have caused incidents like this, (the nurse was alleged  have covid and still nursing old people whilst not wearing a mask. Inquest on going.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0m044xlmxwo

1 October 2024
A nurse at a Devon care home where seven people died refused to wear a face mask because he believed Covid-19 was a conspiracy, an inquest has heard.
William Wilkinson, 102, Doris Lockett, 92, Roy Gilliam, 96, Jean Hartley, 81, Susan Skinner, 70, Ronald Bampfylde, 92, and Stanislawa Koch, 93 died between March or April 2021 at Holmesley Care Home in Sidford.
Alison Longhorn, area coroner for Devon, Plymouth and Torbay, heard all seven died after contracting the virus.
The Care Quality Commission (CQC) also carried out two visits that February and told the home it was not following personal protective equipment (PPE) guidelines, the hearing in Exeter was told. The inquest continues.

[Borg Refinery]

That's not the comparison I'm making.  I'm saying they broke the Nuremberg Code which was agreed for good reason. It should not matter who breaks the code, whether they are Nazis, or NHS staff.  No one should break it, and there should be consequences.

Doctors should not be hanged or imprisoned for following imperfect and flawed Western science, they thought they were helping people. They did not mean to harm anyone.

I believe you mean well and want to protect people from the harmful effects of vaccines yourself.

[Scott777]

It's just not the same, they don't deserve to be attacked - to compare doctors following the government here in the West to Nazi doctors doing Hitler's bidding.

That's not the comparison I'm making.  I'm saying they broke the Nuremberg Code which was agreed for good reason. It should not matter who breaks the code, whether they are Nazis, or NHS staff.  No one should break it, and there should be consequences.

[papasmurf]

Just for your interest:-Deaths of the unvaccinated were far higher.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/england-covid-19-mortality-rate-by-vaccination-status

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland