Time for change?

[Borg Refinery]

It seems UnluckyFoursome has done a runner.

Nope, he is currently on holiday in Guernsey

https://pol-tics.com/index.php?topic=7075.msg129497#msg129497

[Borg Refinery]

Actually, the Nazi doctors were not all trying to kill people, but doing experiments.  They followed orders.  That's why the Nuremberg Code was agreed by the allies.  Following guidelines is the same as following orders, which is not a defence.  The vaccinators did not follow the science.  The science said the injections were experimental, so there was not enough science to show they were safe.  Informed consent is essential.

It's just not the same, they don't deserve to be attacked - to compare doctors following the government here in the West to Nazi doctors doing Hitler's bidding.

[Scott777]

It seems UnluckyFoursome has done a runner.  It's probably just a coincidence that he couldn't seem to explain why the clinical trials for Pfizer showed the word experimental next to every dose, and yet he insisted it was not because they were experimental vaccines, but some other mysterious meaning of experimental.  🤔

[Scott777]

They were trying to follow science and the guidelines, and help people, they aren't trying to kill people as Nazis did.

And even many of them resisted, like the head of the Luftwaffe for example, so even Nazis resisted and tried to do what they could

Actually, the Nazi doctors were not all trying to kill people, but doing experiments.  They followed orders.  That's why the Nuremberg Code was agreed by the allies.  Following guidelines is the same as following orders, which is not a defence.  The vaccinators did not follow the science.  The science said the injections were experimental, so there was not enough science to show they were safe.  Informed consent is essential.

[Borg Refinery]

They were trying to follow science and the guidelines, and help people, they aren't trying to kill people as Nazis did.

And even many of them resisted, like the head of the Luftwaffe for example, so even Nazis resisted and tried to do what they could

[Scott777]

The doctors ... should never be hanged for that

I agree, but it should be in proportion to the harm caused.  The Nazis were hanged.  If a vaccinator caused death with a Covid injection, and failed to get informed consent, they deserve prison.  It's not just for the death, but for breaking the Nuremberg Code.  In practice, the law would probably be medical battery and breach of the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 6.

[Borg Refinery]

I clearly remember the government at these high power 4pm covid briefings telling everyone they needed to get jabbed to protect their parents and grandparents.

Oh, those

To be fair, Boris was doing the best he could and changed advice almost every single day, saying one thing then the absolute other the next day. He was being advised by advisors.

They were all trying their best and messaging was extremely confused and contradictory as we all remember. No one knew what they were doing or what was what, least of all the govt because it was all so new and confusing, never had anything like that since the Spanish Flu

I don't think we should harshly judge them for that.

[Barry]

Did they do that in England? Wasn't that only the CDC here in the states who said it prevents disease and transmission?

I'd prefer not to have been jabbed either, also, I've been jabbed at least 3-4x more with many other types of vaccines since coming to the states. You must have them in order to be eligible to stay here.

I clearly remember the government at these high power 4pm covid briefings telling everyone they needed to get jabbed to protect their parents and grandparents.

[Borg Refinery]

That was after the Government and Pharma told the lies about the jab preventing the disease and preventing transmission, when it actually did neither of those things.

Did they do that in England? Wasn't that only the CDC here in the states who said it prevents disease and transmission?

That was reprehensible and bordering on criminal coercion, the main reason I had 2 jabs, which I did not really want.

I'd prefer not to have been jabbed either, also, I've been jabbed at least 3-4x more with many other types of vaccines since coming to the states. You must have them in order to be eligible to stay here.

[Borg Refinery]

Anti-vaxxers are a social evil, they are directly responsible for the rise in several diseases, measles being one, because vaccinations have dropped significantly.

I am very evil and sinful, but anti-vaxxers are good people in the main who are trying their best to prevent others being harmed by vaccines

You shouldn't use me to tar them with the same brush

[papasmurf]

I would question the motives of giving Covid jabs to kids who have negligible risk from Covid.  It's not possible to help when there is no problem.  I'm sure big pharma knows that.

Suggested reading:-

https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

June 11, 2021
Which countries have mandatory childhood vaccination policies?
How do policies on childhood vaccinations vary across the world?

[papasmurf]

That was after the Government and Pharma told the lies about the jab preventing the disease and preventing transmission, when it actually did neither of those things.

That was withdrawn and corrected as I referenced earlier.

[Barry]

Maybe, but their argument was the kids would spread it to the elderly and they would die very readily, at least from the first 3-4 variants. The alpha variant was very deadly to the elderly.

Having had COVID at least twice (a test came back positive once), it wasn't a joke, it caused severe issues for me, but so did the vaccines. I don't know if it would have been better or worse without the vaccines but I know COVID was bad for me and that wasn't even alpha or delta, it was subsequent to that

But I agree the vaccines were experimental and needed more testing

Drs who administered them are absolutely trusting of science and tried their best to help people dying of COVID, in no way should they be hanged for that.

Anti-vaxxers who are trying to help people harmed by the vaccines are also good people.

There's no contradiction there.

That was after the Government and Pharma told the lies about the jab preventing the disease and preventing transmission, when it actually did neither of those things.
That was reprehensible and bordering on criminal coercion, the main reason I had 2 jabs, which I did not really want.

[papasmurf]

Anti-vaxxers who are trying to help people harmed by the vaccines are also good people.

Anti-vaxxers are a social evil, they are directly responsible for the rise in several diseases, measles being one, because vaccinations have dropped significantly.

[Borg Refinery]

I would question the motives of giving Covid jabs to kids who have negligible risk from Covid.  It's not possible to help when there is no problem.  I'm sure big pharma knows that.

Maybe, but their argument was the kids would spread it to the elderly and they would die very readily, at least from the first 3-4 variants. The alpha variant was very deadly to the elderly.

Having had COVID at least twice (a test came back positive once), it wasn't a joke, it caused severe issues for me, but so did the vaccines. I don't know if it would have been better or worse without the vaccines but I know COVID was bad for me and that wasn't even alpha or delta, it was subsequent to that

But I agree the vaccines were experimental and needed more testing

Drs who administered them are absolutely trusting of science and tried their best to help people dying of COVID, in no way should they be hanged for that.

Anti-vaxxers who are trying to help people harmed by the vaccines are also good people.

There's no contradiction there.