Brexit post virus?

[Thomas]

Well TBH Thomas I don't really care that much about myself9though I'd rather not sod off yet)

i know cromwell. Well listen tae this.



Yesterday morning I saw a radical prodistent rangers fan (who was ranting on about nat si ( SNP)aggression in the peace loving paradise of Govan) lose his footing and fall into the clyde.



Being a responsible scottish citizen, I notified the emergency services.



By noon today, they still hadn't arrived....



I'm beginning to think I've wasted a stamp!

[Thomas]

@Thomas Would I have a pop at you? A) It's not my style B) I wouldn't dare!   :dncg:

ha ha sorry toots

[T00ts]

@Thomas Would I have a pop at you? A) It's not my style B) I wouldn't dare!   :dncg:

[cromwell]

Well all im saying cromwell is you didnt worry about what world leaders said before , and now you only seem to be worried to mask over your own fears that are already there.



All im saying , i appreciate you are concerned , you hve everyright to be , but...there needs to be some perspective put into place.



If in the unlikely hood you do contract the virus , you will recive , despite the doomongers and the media , the best or among thebest medical treatment in the entire world.



There are older folk all round the globe who are sitting worrying like you about coronavirus who wont in any way get as good a treatment as you will in your country.



If you do get it you have a great chance of survival , putting things into perspective.



All im saying is you are right to be concerned but dont get carried along on the tsunami of bullshit hysteria and misinformation.Thats exactly what 99% of it is out there at the minute.

Well TBH Thomas I don't really care that much about myself (though I'd rather not sod off yet) I do worry for my OH though who has a drastically reduced immune system because of medication.



If a very experienced hospital Dr tells you that this means the Nhs would not function as usual and people will die a lingering death largely untreated what would you think? In those circumstances I'd prefer a quick injection and goodnight Vienna but that's not allowed.



No this isn't a tsunami of BS but someone who has worked in the NHS for years.

[Thomas]

Well who is consistent in disagreement,and you say this not unusual ( bugger me it is thomas....tom jones :-P ) anyway it's not a case of being protected it's receiving adequate tratment.

Well all im saying cromwell is you didnt worry about what world leaders said before , and now you only seem to be worried to mask over your own fears that are already there.



All im saying , i appreciate you are concerned , you hve everyright to be , but...there needs to be some perspective put into place.



If in the unlikely hood you do contract the virus , you will recive , despite the doomongers and the media , the best or among thebest medical treatment in the entire world.



There are older folk all round the globe who are sitting worrying like you about coronavirus who wont in any way get as good a treatment as you will in your country.



If you do get it you have a great chance of survival , putting things into perspective.



All im saying is you are right to be concerned but dont get carried along on the tsunami of bullshit hysteria and misinformation.Thats exactly what 99% of it is out there at the minute.

[cromwell]

But I've already shown you irresponsible reporting from, of all the self regarding sources, the Guardian?  If the so called quality papers can't be relied on to report accurately and without dramatization, then who can?



I stress again, panicking people to the point they strip supermarkets bare is helping who exactly?

And I've already said I don't think stripping supermarkets is best nor do I give a toss about the media they do what they do,what I do care about is if this is handled properly,I've already shown you that health professionals think it all woefully inadequate.

[cromwell]

ok , and im no having a dig at toots merely asking if she was having a pop at me.







You have no consistency here cromwell. You dismissed world leaders "worry " over brexit  , from obamas intervention , to many others , as of no consequence when they said it was concerning in the extreme if the uk left the eu , and the economic fall out , and now you ask why world leaders are worried now?



World leaders are always worreid about anything that upsets the apple cart out of the ordinary run of the mill. I would bet they are more worried about the economy than anything else.









and countries around the world have the exact same problem. France has the best healthsystem according to the WHO in the entire world , but the french are equally worried about their healkth system coping with vast demand on corona or anything else. This isnt something unusual , we hear about the scottish and english nhs struggling to cope in terms of beds with normal flu viruses every year and the media making political capital out of it.



You live in one of the richest countries in the world , with a great health system , and despite the fact things can and could always improve , if england and the wider uk cant protect us from coronavirus then you cant be protected.



The fact remains the vast vast  majority of people on these islands are not going to die of coronavirus.

Well who is consistent in disagreement,and you say this not unusual ( bugger me it is thomas....tom jones :-P ) anyway it's not a case of being protected it's receiving adequate tratment.

[DeppityDawg]

The problem is not saying that millions would die but it is an ICU problem,Italy is struggling they have twice as many IC beds as us per capita,Germany four times,people who would otherwise be treated in Italy are being stuck in corridors or in areas (not wards) in temporary beds without oxygen or ventilators because there aren't enough and basically left to die a slow and horrible death which quite naturally health care workers find hard day after day.



Millions will get it Boris says but not millions die but a significant number will not get treatment,now if that ain't a great problem what is?



Update

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-to-buy-up-private-hospital-beds-as-covid-19-spreads-in-uk-11957691">//https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-to-buy-up-private-hospital-beds-as-covid-19-spreads-in-uk-11957691 So now the health secretary is comparing it to WW2 panic merchant eh?

But I've already shown you irresponsible reporting from, of all the self regarding sources, the Guardian?  If the so called quality papers can't be relied on to report accurately and without dramatization, then who can?



I stress again, panicking people to the point they strip supermarkets bare is helping who exactly?

[Thomas]

For your sake, I hope that Mrs Thomas does not read that post



   

its alright brokie , i told her it the other week and i just got a dismissive glare. ::

[Borchester]

member this auld joke borkie?



Wife is worried about the virus , so she just been down the doctors to see what the spot is between her tits.



Shes came back home relieved to be told its her bellybutton. ::

 

For your sake, I hope that Mrs Thomas does not read that post



   

[Thomas]

I can't speak for T00ts but the way I read it was not a dig at you more a general observation.

ok , and im no having a dig at toots merely asking if she was having a pop at me.

I keep repeating this but why are world leaders from across the political spectrum worried?

You have no consistency here cromwell. You dismissed world leaders "worry " over brexit  , from obamas intervention , to many others , as of no consequence when they said it was concerning in the extreme if the uk left the eu , and the economic fall out , and now you ask why world leaders are worried now?



World leaders are always worreid about anything that upsets the apple cart out of the ordinary run of the mill. I would bet they are more worried about the economy than anything else.

It is not panic to comment on the woeful number of ICU beds in this country or possibility of very many people dying through lack of care facilities,even Boris said it that a good number of loved ones will die (before their time) what he didn't add is slowly drowning in their own mucus if this explodes and it looks they expect it to because the nhs will not be able to cope.

and countries around the world have the exact same problem. France has the best healthsystem according to the WHO in the entire world , but the french are equally worried about their healkth system coping with vast demand on corona or anything else. This isnt something unusual , we hear about the scottish and english nhs struggling to cope in terms of beds with normal flu viruses every year and the media making political capital out of it.



You live in one of the richest countries in the world , with a great health system , and despite the fact things can and could always improve , if england and the wider uk cant protect us from coronavirus then you cant be protected.



The fact remains the vast vast  majority of people on these islands are not going to die of coronavirus.

[papasmurf]

I keep repeating this but why are world leaders from across the political spectrum worried?

They know something we don't.

[cromwell]

Im not sure if yor inferring im standing on a soapbox , all im saying is the same as deppity about keeping a calm and level head.



not sure how thats in denial.



You mention the word tsunami?



From what little i know , which doesnt seem to be any less than most , coronavirus first was heard of nearly 11 weeks ago in china.



This "tsunami" as you call it has taken 11 weeks to reach scotland , bearing in mind how vastly interconnected the world is today , and has so far out of a population of 5 . 5 million people infected 121 folk at last count and killed one person with an underlying health problem.



I think "tsunami" is stretching the use of the word just a wee bit toots dont you think?



Balanced against the facts we do actually know  , the real "tsunami" i can see is the absolute avalanche of disinformation  , panic ,  hysteria  , that is deliberately being put out there by attention seeking drama queens.



We can quite clearly see the virus , like any other virus , is spreading around the globe , and i have already mentioned i believe most of us will get it if we havent already had it , and in the vast vast majority of cases survive with no more than a headache dry cough and sore arms.



The world has to carry on and not give into nothing more than absolute unfounded hysteria.



I fully appreciate your personal circumstance toots , which you all the very best health  , but life has to carry on. We are all concerned in our own personal way for our own personal circumstances , ad the government at holyrood and westminster have to do whats in the majority interest , which to my mind at present they have , and have done well.

I can't speak for T00ts but the way I read it was not a dig at you more a general observation.



I keep repeating this but why are world leaders from across the political spectrum worried?



It is not panic to comment on the woeful number of ICU beds in this country or possibility of very many people dying through lack of care facilities,even Boris said it that a good number of loved ones will die (before their time) what he didn't add is slowly drowning in their own mucus if this explodes and it looks they expect it to because the nhs will not be able to cope.

[Thomas]

There seem to be as many in denial of any kind of problem regardless of the evidence world wide as there are headless chickens. If this virus had invaded more slowly then I would agree, but the speed of travel of people seems to run hand in hand with the spread. I am not a panicker but I am a realist and if we don't move ourselves and rise to the challenge of this it says an awful lot about our worthiness. It is no more helpful in my view to empty the store rooms no matter the needs of all than it is to stand on a soap box denying the tsunami roaring down the street.

Im not sure if yor inferring im standing on a soapbox , all im saying is the same as deppity about keeping a calm and level head.



not sure how thats in denial.



You mention the word tsunami?



From what little i know , which doesnt seem to be any less than most , coronavirus first was heard of nearly 11 weeks ago in china.



This "tsunami" as you call it has taken 11 weeks to reach scotland , bearing in mind how vastly interconnected the world is today , and has so far out of a population of 5 . 5 million people infected 121 folk at last count and killed one person with an underlying health problem.



I think "tsunami" is stretching the use of the word just a wee bit toots dont you think?



Balanced against the facts we do actually know  , the real "tsunami" i can see is the absolute avalanche of disinformation  , panic ,  hysteria  , that is deliberately being put out there by attention seeking drama queens.



We can quite clearly see the virus , like any other virus , is spreading around the globe , and i have already mentioned i believe most of us will get it if we havent already had it , and in the vast vast majority of cases survive with no more than a headache dry cough and sore arms.



The world has to carry on and not give into nothing more than absolute unfounded hysteria.



I fully appreciate your personal circumstance toots , which you all the very best health  , but life has to carry on. We are all concerned in our own personal way for our own personal circumstances , ad the government at holyrood and westminster have to do whats in the majority interest , which to my mind at present they have , and have done well.

[johnofgwent]

We need facts mate, not panic

We do.



How about this one then



https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/worrying-stats-show-how-intensive-17909557">https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/heal ... e-17909557">https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/worrying-stats-show-how-intensive-17909557



According to latest figures, the UK has 6.6 critical care beds per 100,000 population - way below the European average of 11.5. In real terms, that means that last year there were 153 daily intensive care beds available in Welsh hospitals, with an average of 80.7% of them taken up by patients on a day-to-day basis



I have been watching those worldometer figures with interest and I have also been perusing the American Centre for Disease Control public information on past flu epidemics particularly 2018-19 which was a BAD one.



According to the https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-states-population/">https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... opulation/">https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-states-population/ site, in that year, the population of the USA was 329.45 million, it is now 330 million.  Over the winter 2018 to spring 2019 period, the CDC says about 16 million people caught the flu badly enough to seek some form of help, almost half a million of those 16 million ended up as an inpatient and 35000 of those died. What the CDC is NOT so good at working out is how many caught the flu, did bugger all except chew their way through a kilogram of lemsip and a quart of scotch and came out the other side pissed off but otherwise unharmed. The CDC made a guesstimate that a total of about 17 million people fell into that category ytaking the total who caught the flu to 35 million or somewhere between one in seven to one in eight of the whole country.



So, let's go back to the worldometer figures. And I will focus on the figures for china as they seem to be past the peak and they are the country for which the most complete data is available.



The worldometer figures seem to count the total number of cases, then split that into active and resolved. The active are split into mild versus severe, and the resolved are split into alive versus dead.



It's not easy to work out the chinese infection rate, and they drag people off in the middle of the night and probably shoot them, which does not help, but there are supposedly about 1.3 billion people in china, and 1 million in Wuhan province. A total of about 80,000 cases have been declared, and the really vital point is, right now, in china, 10,000 (ish) people HAVE this illness and 3,200 of them have it severely.



Now as I say at the start of this post, wales online finds that there are 153 ICU beds in wales and all but 30 are already being used for something other than coronavirus and always have been. Not least because we run our NHS so hard it has only half the capacity of the European average.



The thing about the figures is the split between mild and severe. In china it's 70/30, in italy, roughly 90/10. right now in the UK its 98 to 2% but wer'e scaling up. Spain has 96%-5%



So what am I getting at ?



As of today we have 94 cases in wales.  https://phw.nhs.wales/news/public-health-wales-statement-on-novel-coronavirus-outbreak/">https://phw.nhs.wales/news/public-healt ... -outbreak/">https://phw.nhs.wales/news/public-health-wales-statement-on-novel-coronavirus-outbreak/



And thanks to 22 years of Labour mismanagement of the NHS we have only 30 spare ICU beds.



If the real mild:serious ratio here is is 90:10 then as soon as the total number of infected people in wales hits 300 we're f*cked as we will not have an ICU bed to treat the next serious case. If the real mild to serious ratio is the best recorded (98:2) then as soon as we have 1500 active cases we're still f*cked. And with wales in 2018 having 3.1 million people, how long before 1500 of them have the disease at the same time



Who do we allow to die untreated ? The new case ? Or do we switch of the one whose had the longest go at proper treatment?



When will the riots over treatment of illegals begin ? Bear in mind the welsh labour and lib dims debated and heartily approved giving my father's hospice bed to a nigerian health tourist, and left him to die in a stinking side ward on the fifth floor of the most advanced hospital in wales, and that was in 2005 at the height of blair's power.



And bear in mind also that while the NHS transplant site today has toned it down a bit, they still admit black and minority ethnics need more transplants than whiets because their organs are less capable of taking a pounding. And back in 2010 hey said it openly, now you have to look hard. But it's still there. How long before Abbott, Lammy and the rest fo the professional black circus do an ethnic analysis of the deaths, and point the finger at the white guy for not FUNDING black NHS care when the reality is the eugenics guys were right they're not up to the job of surviving.