Brexit post virus?

[papasmurf]

Wife drives down there and the supermarkets are fully stocked and no busier than normal.

Here in West Cornwall the supermarket shelves are bare. The government VERY urgently needs to bring in rationing.

Why people are clearing the shelves of bog rolls is a mystery, unless they are full of shit.

(There are only 5 cases if Covid-19 in Cornwall and that has not increased for four days.)

Most of my neighbours are either elderly or in an at risk category.

[Thomas]

Not terrifying me, making me VERY angry. But some people on this forum are nasty bastards.

They might no be terrifying you , but certainly i have many elderly neighbours who are being worried sick by things they are hearing , most of which as deppity has said is nothing more than vague opinions based on empty unfounded rumour.



My wife has been sending  them texts over the last week or so checking they are all right and seeing if they need anything , and trying to calm any of their worries as best she can.



Went on facebook this morning , my wife said the local page was telling everyone the local supermarkets were full of panic buyers emptying the shelves.



Wife drives down there and the supermarkets are fully stocked and no busier than normal.



Nothing but nasty evil barstewards spreading mass hysteria.

[papasmurf]

Certain clowns as i keep saying need to keep their feckin traps firmly shut and stop terrifying the elderly .

Not terrifying me, making me VERY angry. But some people on this forum are nasty bastards.

[Thomas]

Course you are but then you're not an old git like me with family and friends most at risk,anyway glad to see you back.

Cromwell , we are all worried in our own ways about the different effects of this . My maw and dad are deid , but i still have many elderly relatives and those with underlying health problems that i am fearfull for.



We need to keep calm and rational heads , be sensible ,think of others , and try and carry on sensibly. Running around( im not saying you are) like a feckin headless chicken does no one any favours.



Certain clowns as i keep saying need to keep their feckin traps firmly shut and stop terrifying the elderly .

[Thomas]

Nailed, Thomas. Italy is already a basket case. What is locking down millions of people, slowing or stopping factories, scaring people half to death so they won't go out to bars, shops or resturants, writing off tourism for months, risking bankruptcies and business failures on a grand scale and putting perhaps 10s of thousands out of work going to do for Italy, once the scourge of coronavirus on the scale of a "world war" has been averted?

I was talking to one of our customers the other day deppity , and she is extremely worried. She owns a farm  , rents much of her land to bigger farms around her , and has a mass of holiday cottages , her husband owns a building company.



She has two long term people in her cottages at reduced rate , ie just about covering bills but not making any money , tourism has fallen off a cliff and bookings have been cancelled , she was asking me do i know anything about business rates relief due to the virus , and if the governments both scottish and uk are giving any help , she is worried sick about her income and paying the bills.



Similar story across the board with many other people we know and are acquantied with through networking groups , etc etc.



Theres me and my missus and we have 6 employees. Im fine for this month , sorted for paying bills and wages but next month is a complete unknown to me. I dont know where we will be.



So to me the government  at holyrood and westminster are spot on so far. Keep things ticking over as sensibly as possible , get to easter and kids off school and then see where we all are when we come back.



All these liberal leftie bellends who are all of a sudden experts on viruses and locking countries down need feckin shot in my opinion. They must have egos the size of texas , and the sad fact of the matter a few nitwits are going to believe everything they say and the hysteria they are trying to spread.



If the scottish and english governments close things down too prematurely , and we end up in lockdown for months on end , what then?



People running out of cash , bills no being paid , it wont be the feckin corona virus  worrying the government  .



Im just in shock in what i am reading and seeing at the minute .Some of these cants need a severe kicking.

[DeppityDawg]

I have a feeling that the facts aren't there because they are fearful that there will be complete panic if they were. It's not the %age that die, it's the number who get severe pneumonia that require continued ventilation. I think this is a case of waves and waves of pneumonia patients who need ventilation while those already hospitalised are in no shape to be moved on. Rather than the usual conveyor belt there are logjams galore.



It takes about 8 weeks to recover so with more coming into intensive care than go out there is an inevitable build up. What I think many are missing is that it's not just the elderly who get the pneumonia. It will hit all ages. This is a disease that will find any underlying conditions that we ourselves aren't even aware of and it covers so many. Diabetes, lung conditions, high blood pressure, heart conditions. It must give the hospitals an impossible task with no light at the end of the tunnel.



It is time to start taking it seriously without panic and with clear heads. Running around like headless chickens on both sides of the spectrum, either with fear or with a determined lack of concern isn't actually going to help any of those who are going to come off worse. It's now been discovered that the lasting damage caused to the lungs will restrict their lives going forward. Lungs cannot heal themselves.

But the figures say "91% of cases are mild"? Are we saying that they need ventilators too? Are you saying that many of the 9% of cases that are serious are staying in hospital even if they've been classed as recovered, and this is what is causing the log jam? Even if they were all in hospital for 8 weeks, its still only 1500 cases at present. Sure, that's bad, but are we saying a modern, developed economy like Italy cannot cope with 1500 cases of pneumonia (if that's even true)?



Lets go back to the beginning. Are any of the figures correct, and how do we know? Who should we believe? Clearly, some don't believe our own government. Predictably, some dredge up their favourite hobby horse to turn this into a political issue, rather than a health issue. And for instance, why should we believe the Guardian or the BBC when they publish hyperbole and opinion, but not the Daily Mail? Isn't funny how the Guardian informs remainers, and suddenly this Brexit government led by Johnson is getting panned as being "wrong" when no one even seems to know what the facts are?



I get everything you say there, Toots. But the argument is running at the fear, reaction and "the enemy of my enemy" level here, and at best, these are all opinions. Including mine, yours and everyone elses. We have people (not just on this forum) demanding kill or cure reactions which we don't even know for sure have worked in either China or Italy, or anywhere else yet, and may result in even further damage that simply cannot be repaired. We need facts, Toots.

[cromwell]

I know what you are saying cromwell , but i havce never taken quackers serious all the time i have been acquantied with him and i am not about to start now.



I dont think any health service from what i have been reading can ever possibly be fully prepared for something like this virus , and of course again going into the politics of it there is an argument around underfunding we have touched on in the past.



However we are where we are.



You must admit though there are some absolute tools running around trying to stir up hysteria and make political capital out of the whole coronavirus episode that dont deserve any respect or time. Quackers is yet again one of them.



Im more worried about economic meltdown and the aftermath then i am about coronavirus specifically.



I think as i keep saying botyh sturgeon and johnson have called things correct so far. That  may change , but so far i think they are treading that fine balancing line , and shouldnt give into knee jerk hysterics .

Course you are but then you're not an old git like me with family and friends most at risk,anyway glad to see you back.

[DeppityDawg]

I know what you are saying cromwell , but i havce never taken quackers serious all the time i have been acquantied with him and i am not about to start now.



I dont think any health service from what i have been reading can ever possibly be fully prepared for something like this virus , and of course again going into the politics of it there is an argument around underfunding we have touched on in the past.



However we are where we are.



You must admit though there are some absolute tools running around trying to stir up hysteria and make political capital out of the whole coronavirus episode that dont deserve any respect or time. Quackers is yet again one of them.



Im more worried about economic meltdown and the aftermath then i am about coronavirus specifically.



I think as i keep saying botyh sturgeon and johnson have called things correct so far. That  may change , but so far i think they are treading that fine balancing line , and shouldnt give into knee jerk hysterics .

Nailed, Thomas. Italy is already a basket case. What is locking down millions of people, slowing or stopping factories, scaring people half to death so they won't go out to bars, shops or resturants, writing off tourism for months, risking bankruptcies and business failures on a grand scale and putting perhaps 10s of thousands out of work going to do for Italy, once the scourge of coronavirus on the scale of a "world war" has been averted?

[T00ts]

I have a feeling that the facts aren't there because they are fearful that there will be complete panic if they were. It's not the %age that die, it's the number who get severe pneumonia that require continued ventilation. I think this is a case of waves and waves of pneumonia patients who need ventilation while those already hospitalised are in no shape to be moved on. Rather than the usual conveyor belt there are logjams galore.



It takes about 8 weeks to recover so with more coming into intensive care than go out there is an inevitable build up. What I think many are missing is that it's not just the elderly who get the pneumonia. It will hit all ages. This is a disease that will find any underlying conditions that we ourselves aren't even aware of and it covers so many. Diabetes, lung conditions, high blood pressure, heart conditions. It must give the hospitals an impossible task with no light at the end of the tunnel.



It is time to start taking it seriously without panic and with clear heads. Running around like headless chickens on both sides of the spectrum, either with fear or with a determined lack of concern isn't actually going to help any of those who are going to come off worse. It's now been discovered that the lasting damage caused to the lungs will restrict their lives going forward. Lungs cannot heal themselves.

[DeppityDawg]

:hattip

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/italian-doctor-an-experience-i-would-compare-to-a-world-war">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -world-war">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/italian-doctor-an-experience-i-would-compare-to-a-world-war



A nurse on the frontline of Italy's coronavirus outbreak has described the experience as "war-like". "It's an experience I would compare to a world war," Re told the Guardian. 40 cases of pneumonia a day. The virus has infected many doctors and nurses as they worked. "He died a hero, like other colleagues who have died in recent days," Saverio Chiaravalle, vice-president of the Varese doctors order, told Corriere della Sera.



Really??? Is this all hospitals? Or is it because the infections are in hotspots that overwhelm local resources and staff levels? How many "doctors and nurses" have died as a result of the disease? Shouldn't there be facts to support these claims? If this was the Daily Mail, we'd all roll our eyes, but its not the DM, its the fecking Guardian?



Come on Cromwell? The entire sum of Corona virus cases in Italy is less than 0.03% of the population? Has this completely wrecked healthcare to the point that saving a life "is decided by age and health conditions ... as in situations of war"? Where are the facts? Where is the information?

[Thomas]

I've never said you or anyone else is bad for thinking differently or that I am convinced I'm right,I laughed at people hoarding stuff for brexit but for old people like the M in L or those vulnerable who may not be able to go out it is justified because this is different IMO.



 Why should you be sorry and where have I ever said I don't like somebody having a different opinion and I'm disappointed you attribute that to me and that you have decided I'm panic striken :-P  :-P



When I said I don't think people always read a post it was because I was pointing out it was not about Brexit and I had some sympathy for what quackers was saying.

I know what you are saying cromwell , but i havce never taken quackers serious all the time i have been acquantied with him and i am not about to start now.



I dont think any health service from what i have been reading can ever possibly be fully prepared for something like this virus , and of course again going into the politics of it there is an argument around underfunding we have touched on in the past.



However we are where we are.



You must admit though there are some absolute tools running around trying to stir up hysteria and make political capital out of the whole coronavirus episode that dont deserve any respect or time. Quackers is yet again one of them.



Im more worried about economic meltdown and the aftermath then i am about coronavirus specifically.



I think as i keep saying botyh sturgeon and johnson have called things correct so far. That  may change , but so far i think they are treading that fine balancing line , and shouldnt give into knee jerk hysterics .

[cromwell]

I'm sorry Cromwell, I should have perhaps framed that as meaning a royal "you", rather than you personally, which is how I meant it. "If one does not like that..."  ::



But for instance, what has actually happened in Italy or Iran, factually? I don't actually know if this is correct but its information and its says date todays date?



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/italy/">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/



17,750 currently infected patients, 16,232 or 91% are mild, 1518 or 9%, serious or critical, 1441 deaths. Are we to believe that 1518 current serious or critical cases has crashed the whole Italian health system? Out of a country of 60 million people? Is this information incomplete, or in some way doesn't wholly sum up the situation as it actually is? Are some so called "health officials" and experts exaggerating, or are we missing vital information that would explain why Italy is in such a health crisis? For one, I cannot believe 1518 serious or critical cases has utterly crashed the entire Italian health care system?



We need facts mate, not panic and "demands" to this, that or the other without understanding why? Thomas has already posted the petition from Quack Quack types demanding we close down society, without any care about the fresh disaster that may cause. I'm as confused as you are, but I'm sure that this type of panic reaction is NOT the answer.

 :hattip

[DeppityDawg]

Well I wasn't really having a go at you ,I've been out shopping for my mother in law who is in her nineties (yeah I know ) and it's bloody mad out there,I'm getting her stuff so she doesn't have to go out.



And yeah the satellite pictures might be wrong so might Boris,friend of the family is a registrar at local NHS hospital and I'm told the nhs is in no way prepared,hospitals are full to near capacity they don't have enough equipment and if it takes off like Italy we're stuffed so who do I believe him or the govt? well my money is on him.



I've never said you or anyone else is bad for thinking differently or that I am convinced I'm right,I laughed at people hoarding stuff for brexit but for old people like the M in L or those vulnerable who may not be able to go out it is justified because this is different IMO.



 Why should you be sorry and where have I ever said I don't like somebody having a different opinion and I'm disappointed you attribute that to me and that you have decided I'm panic striken :-P  :-P



When I said I don't think people always read a post it was because I was pointing out it was not about Brexit and I had some sympathy for what quackers was saying.



Apart from that I'm glad Rab C is back

I'm sorry Cromwell, I should have perhaps framed that as meaning a royal "you", rather than you personally, which is how I meant it. "If one does not like that..."  ::



But for instance, what has actually happened in Italy or Iran, factually? I don't actually know if this is correct but its information and its says date todays date?



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/italy/">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/



17,750 currently infected patients, 16,232 or 91% are mild, 1518 or 9%, serious or critical, 1441 deaths. Are we to believe that 1518 current serious or critical cases has crashed the whole Italian health system? Out of a country of 60 million people? Is this information incomplete, or in some way doesn't wholly sum up the situation as it actually is? Are some so called "health officials" and experts exaggerating, or are we missing vital information that would explain why Italy is in such a health crisis? For one, I cannot believe 1518 serious or critical cases has utterly crashed the entire Italian health care system?



We need facts mate, not panic and "demands" to this, that or the other without understanding why? Thomas has already posted the petition from Quack Quack types demanding we close down society, without any care about the fresh disaster that may cause. I'm as confused as you are, but I'm sure that this type of panic reaction is NOT the answer.

[cromwell]

I think the comparison some are trying make here is not with Brexit itself, more with the Brexit argument we've all (including yourself) experienced over the last few years. One side of that argument constantly stressed its intellectual superiority in facts, figures and scientific/mathematical "facts and figures", yet here is Quack Quack reacting to rumour, media speculation and gut instinct in a way Brexiteers would have been panned for a year ago. As you yourself have said above, the jury is out, because there is so much we don't know, yet this doesn't stop people advocating "instinctive" reactions to something we actually know very little about.



What can't be denied is that panic and speculation is rife in all this, the world over. That Iran are "digging mass graves" as the result of a satellite image with little hard evidence of actual figures, to people panic buying bog rolls and pasta (then posting images of their carefully labelled horde on social media with self satisfied comments), to pure speculation about how the NHS will collapse within days (with much of it political point scoring as it is material fact)



Its not that people necessarily don't read someone elses post, its that many of us have a different view. It doesn't make us bad people that we refuse to be reduced to panicked soundbytes or to picking and choosing sensationalist figures out of thin air. I don't know the answers anymore than you do, but in the absence of evidential argument, I refuse to join the circus of fear unfolding around us, and will go to work until I am ordered not to. Sorry if you don't like that, but that is how many of us feel.



EDIT - thank feck Rob Roy is back  ::

Well I wasn't really having a go at you ,I've been out shopping for my mother in law who is in her nineties (yeah I know ) and it's bloody mad out there,I'm getting her stuff so she doesn't have to go out.



And yeah the satellite pictures might be wrong so might Boris,friend of the family is a registrar at local NHS hospital and I'm told the nhs is in no way prepared,hospitals are full to near capacity they don't have enough equipment and if it takes off like Italy we're stuffed so who do I believe him or the govt? well my money is on him.



I've never said you or anyone else is bad for thinking differently or that I am convinced I'm right,I laughed at people hoarding stuff for brexit but for old people like the M in L or those vulnerable who may not be able to go out it is justified because this is different IMO.

Sorry if you don't like that, but that is how many of us feel.

Why should you be sorry and where have I ever said I don't like somebody having a different opinion and I'm disappointed you attribute that to me and that you have decided I'm panic striken :-P  :-P



When I said I don't think people always read a post it was because I was pointing out it was not about Brexit and I had some sympathy for what quackers was saying.



Apart from that I'm glad Rab C is back

[GregB]

have you seen those pictures on facebook taking the piss greg?



One is a guy in a spacesuit saying do you want anything from the shops im just popping down fur a wee bit , the other is vin diesel the actor and a load of fast cars chasing an andrex lorry?



You have to laugh. :roll:  ::

Thankfully not Thomas, I don't do FB or Twitter