Boris to address the nation tonight

[Streetwalker]

As a self employed  Brickie sole trader not under universal credit  I will  be  surprised if there is any free money out there for me . But that's not the point that being the nations health which isn't going to benefit from (how many ) construction workers roaming the streets of London or any other City of the UK .



I know there and contractual obligations that sub contractors have to meet and is why the guys are still being asked to turn up for work . That along with the prospect of a vastly reduced income at best is what keeps the sites open . Its only with government intervention that those contracts can be put to one side  the sites closed  and some money sorted out for the men



The Mrs who works for a construction company that carries out council maintenance in various parts of London has just closed its offices . Maybe they know something .

[Thomas]

The point nalaar mentioned about the self employed is a feckin joke.



What self employed brickie , normally earning anyhting from £500 - to a grand a week , is going to sit at home and wait five weeks on a queue system to apply for universal credit of £94 a week to stop potantially getting coronavirus or stop it spreading , when £94 a week will barely cover his familys food bill never mind a grand a month mortgage , £300 a month van loan , and all the other monthly bills he is going to have to pay?



I have all sorts of sympathy for them boys putting their health at risk on the telly this morning working on laying blocks somewhere in london when they arent being offered any support from the gov but some cant that sits in an office all day is getting offered 80%of their wages depending on how the scheme is administered.



Nalaars empty rhetoric of there being any sort of certainty at the minute is a feckin laugh.



The government are taking the piss now.We either all crack on and keep earning money or we dont for the health of ourselves and everyone else and stop , in which case wheres the money coming from?

[Thomas]

The self employed are currently under Universal Credit, however from what I understand there is expected to be a further announcement on Self Employed payments later this week.

i know that , and i never asked that. That isnt what we are discussing. We are discussing the uncertainty out there and the job retention scheme due to coronavirus.



The self employed have always been able to claim like anyone else universal credit.Nothing but a complete diversion from the topic at hand.

For employees - there employer will submit their information to an HMRC portal (currently under construction) and payments will be made to the Employer via a monthly reimbursement system (also under construction).

Any business can apply.

Any business that is struggling in the meantime may be eligible for a Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme.

We again know all that. We are asking for the detail , not a copy and paste from the gov website. We want to know the mechanics of it , and again , as we were talking about contruction workers , you still havent mentioned how they receive help on this scheme if they arent paye registered.

Again though this information is on gov.uk so idk why you want me to repeat what you've already read.

im asking you for detail which you cant supply. Hence my point and streetwalkers of the uncertainty out there.



You are all talk mate but no detail. Empty words on a post about certainty when there is none.



Tell you what , gie me your number , and i will pass it on to our accountant and tell him theres a bloke called nalaar on some obscure political website who knows more about the workings of potential government help than you do.

[Nalaar]

im well aware of what the purpose of the proposed scheme , and i have read the government website.



How does it work in practice since you seem well informed may i ask? Are the aforementioned sub contractors and self employed contruction workers able to apply to be on it?



Is it paid to the company or directly to the employee ?

The self employed are currently under Universal Credit, however from what I understand there is expected to be a further announcement on Self Employed payments later this week.



For employees - there employer will submit their information to an HMRC portal (currently under construction) and payments will be made to the Employer via a monthly reimbursement system (also under construction).

Any business can apply.

Any business that is struggling in the meantime may be eligible for a Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme.



Again though this information is on gov.uk so idk why you want me to repeat what you've already read.

[Thomas]

did you see this bit on the gov website nalaar?

2. Once the new online portal is live, submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been furloughed and their earnings (HMRC will set out further details on the information required)

[/b]



https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/">https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coro ... on-scheme/">https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/



again the bit in brackets shows what streetwalker and i are hinting at , at the minute nothing is concrete , its still a work in progress with the detail to be filled out.



So instead of the certainty you seem to be insinuating is out there , we are again showing the fact that there is uncertainty out there.

[Thomas]

The purpose of the scheme is to allow an employer to claim monthly grants for wages if they are unable to pay their staff. I think this is quite simply specified on the gov.uk website.



Where is the confusion here?

im well aware of what the purpose of the proposed scheme , and i have read the government website.



How does it work in practice since you seem well informed may i ask? Are the aforementioned sub contractors and self employed contruction workers able to apply to be on it?



Is it paid to the company or directly to the employee ?

[Nalaar]

The scheme as it stands is vague at best for ordinary staff on paye. I have 6 member of staff on PAYE , and so far all i and our accountants know is the government  will "reimburse" staff through hmrc if you declare them furloughed workers.How this works in practice is unkown.



Many companies simply wont have the cashflow to pay wages and then claim the money back from hmrc.If you are a sub contractor , or self employed , its even more confusing and murkier to know what you may or may no be entitled to.

The purpose of the scheme is to allow an employer to claim monthly grants for wages if they are unable to pay their staff. I think this is quite simply specified on the gov.uk website.



Where is the confusion here?

[Thomas]

I think you're confusing the matter with the fluid definition of the word "required" - but to hone in on your posing which I have put in bold:

In terms of government advice , which has fluctuated since monday , the definition of the word "required" is the problem.

Are their wages not covered by the Coronavirus Job Retention scheme?

No.No "clarity" at the minute.Many companies are advising staff to assume nothing at the minute until the government provides clarity over the job retention scheme despite what they may have heard i nthe media.



The scheme as it stands is vague at best for ordinary staff on paye. I have 6 member of staff on PAYE , and so far all i and our accountants know is the government  will "reimburse" staff through hmrc if you declare them furloughed workers.How this works in practice is unkown.



Many companies simply wont have the cashflow to pay wages and then claim the money back from hmrc.If you are a sub contractor , or self employed , its even more confusing and murkier to know what you may or may no be entitled to.

[Nalaar]

Every worker in these islands and across the globe is "required" to work.



They are "required" to work for their wages , for their company , and for the general economy.



However under the current restrictions announced originally by the uk government and devolved adminsintrations , some of which contradicts each other advice , construction workers laying block paving outside a shop in battersea arent "key " workers required to work under the original uk government guidelines.



Neither are they practicing social distancing under gov guidelines.



So to answer your question , no they arent required to work as they arent key workers , and could further inflame the corona virus epidemic.



However , from their own point of view , and possibly their companies point of view , they are required to work to get paid.



Can you see the conflict in terms of choice people  and companies are being forced to make?

I think you're confusing the matter with the fluid definition of the word "required" - but to hone in on your posing which I have put in bold:



Are their wages not covered by the Coronavirus Job Retention scheme?

[papasmurf]

Are the construction workers being required to work?

Hinkley Point C nuclear power station construction is carrying on, on the instruction of government. HS2 stopped.

[Thomas]

Are the construction workers being required to work?

Every worker in these islands and across the globe is "required" to work.



They are "required" to work for their wages , for their company , and for the general economy.



However under the current restrictions announced originally by the uk government and devolved adminsintrations , some of which contradicts each other advice , construction workers laying block paving outside a shop in battersea arent "key " workers required to work under the original uk government guidelines.



Neither are they practicing social distancing under gov guidelines.



So to answer your question , no they arent required to work as they arent key workers , and could further inflame the corona virus epidemic.



However , from their own point of view , and possibly their companies point of view , they are required to work to get paid.



Can you see the conflict in terms of choice people  and companies are being forced to make?

[Nalaar]

Thats wasnt what was originally announced though was it which is part of streetwalkers point.



They said no one was to go to work unless they were key workers , with the defintion of key workers defined by government such as health , police etc , then they annouced you could go to work if it was essential , and could work safely within the social distancing rules.



As many have pointed out , anyone who needs money and isnt getting any government help has to "essentially " go to work , and looking at construction workers in cities like london crowding on the underground and crowding on sites is laughable.



So i dont agree with the premise of your post that no more clarity is needed.

Are the construction workers being required to work?

[Thomas]

-You are still required to work.

Thats wasnt what was originally announced though was it which is part of streetwalkers point.



They said no one was to go to work unless they were key workers , with the defintion of key workers defined by government such as health , police etc , then they annouced you could go to work if it was essential , and could work safely within the social distancing rules.



As many have pointed out , anyone who needs money and isnt getting any government help has to "essentially " go to work , and looking at construction workers in cities like london crowding on the underground and crowding on sites is laughable.



So i dont agree with the premise of your post that no more clarity is needed.

[Thomas]

Im tempted to say whats a shopping centre given the decline of such in recent years but fair enough if you have been having a touch of the dramas .



I wasn't though saying that nothing has changed , I was saying nothing has changed with Johnsons address to the nation as it was ambiguous ,vague and written with the economy in mind rather than the nations health  .

The media have been pushing for clarity for two days now and I would expect some clearer leadership to emerge with great haste and some differences enforced

I agree with you mate.



Up till sunday night , i was all for having sympathy and a lot of time for what the scottish and uk government have been trying to deal with.



Sunday night was the prime time to me for johnson , who by and large stil holds most of the power over all of us despite devolution here in scotland , to announce a full lockdown and measures to support the self employed , freelancers and many others.



He didnt do so , and since sunday has been sending mixed messages  to the public on what they should do.



I think this week has been a bit of a pr disaster for the uk government so far , although we all accept in difficult circumstances .

[Nalaar]

Im tempted to say whats a shopping centre given the decline of such in recent years but fair enough if you have been having a touch of the dramas .



I wasn't though saying that nothing has changed , I was saying nothing has changed with Johnsons address to the nation as it was ambiguous ,vague and written with the economy in mind rather than the nations health  .

The media have been pushing for clarity for two days now and I would expect some clearer leadership to emerge with great haste and some differences enforced

We're lucky enough (under normal circumstances) to have a very busy shopping centre in my town.



I don't see what more clarity you need.

Don't leave your house unless-

-You need to shop for Food/Medicine.

-You need to exercise.

-You are still required to work.