Only one speed

[Barry]

Actually is doesn't since, the Italians have learned the hard way in a closed hospital environment the virus is airborne.

So all staff including cleaners need a high level of PPE.

I thought you'd argue with official NHS advice.  :roll:

[papasmurf]

Yes and no.

It depends on the exact treatment or operation that is taking place with the patient.

Actually is doesn't since, the Italians have learned the hard way in a closed hospital environment the virus is airborne.

So all staff including cleaners need a high level of PPE.

[Thomas]

Buzzfeed maks the point again that the whole reason the uk was and is doing less testing for covd 19 than other so called major countries was to do with the original uk government plan of managed epidemic , herd immunity....

 Even The US Is Doing More Coronavirus Tests Than The UK. Here Are The Reasons Why.



The British government keeps saying it's "ramping up testing", but it now lacks both testing kits and dedicated lab capacity thanks to its original strategy to tackle the pandemic.



It is the question everyone is asking: Why is the UK testing less than other major countries?



The public position of Boris Johnson's government — amid mounting political pressure this week — has been to defend its record on coronavirus testing. Britain is carrying out more tests than much of Europe, health secretary Matt Hancock has insisted, it is "ramping up" the number of tests being carried out, and is now able to test 10,000 people per day.



But look at other major economies and that "ramping up" defence does not appear to stand up to scrutiny.



Germany is currently expecting to test half a million people per week. The US, even after the extreme criticism Donald Trump has received over his handling of the pandemic — and on testing specifically — has now surpassed the UK on tests per capita. Yet Britain's ambition is still only to hit 25,000 daily tests within the next three weeks.



BuzzFeed News has spoken to health experts in the UK and across Europe to find out why. The answer, they said, stemmed from Britain's controversial initial strategy of mitigation of the virus (rather than suppression), rendering testing a secondary concern — an approach which has also contributed to a lack of preparedness and the capacity to carry out tests at scale.



The UK's mitigation approach was devised by England's chief medical officer Chris Whitty, and chief scientific adviser, Patrick Vallance. According to a person who has spoken to Whitty and Vallance, they took the view that the UK should not attempt to suppress the outbreak entirely, but rather prioritise protecting the elderly and vulnerable and ensuring the NHS did not become overwhelmed, while allowing the rest of population to build up "herd immunity".



This strategy meant that widespread testing of every coronavirus case was not a priority for the UK, the person said, since the government's scientists were assuming that between 60% and 80% of the population would become infected.



Accordingly, no preparations were made to increase manufacturing or imports of testing kits, nor to expand the UK's laboratory capacity. Imports of testing kits are now extremely difficult as other nations seek more than ever to keep them for their own use.



On Tuesday, the Times reported that a global shortage of key chemicals used for testing meant that some NHS hospitals were having to "home brew" their own. Speaking at the government's daily press conference later that day, cabinet office minister Michael Gove confirmed that the supply of chemicals was an issue.

[/b]





https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-coronavirus-testing-explainer">https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwi ... -explainer">https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-coronavirus-testing-explainer





and we had the likes of robert peston absolutely destroy the bare faced lies from michael gove that the supply of chemicals for testing kits was an issue...

"Michael Gove said just now that the difficulty in increasing number of #COVID19 tests was due to a shortage of the relevant "chemcial reagents". Well I've just talked to the Chemical Industries Association, which represents the UK's very substantial chemicals industry. It has contacted its members, and they've said there is no shortage of the relevant reagents. So the Association has now been in touch with Michael Gove's office to find out what he means, because it is stumped. The Association also points out there was an industry chat with a business minister today, who made no attempt to find out if there was a supply problem for the vital ingredients of Covid19 testing kits. So this question of why there aren't enough tests for the virus is an even bigger mystery. Also, if it turns out there is a shortage these manufacturers are more than happy to increase their production. But they need to be asked, which has not happened. PS It was Labour MP Bill Esterson who initially spotted this gap between what Gove said and what the industry believes to be true."

[/b]



https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1245046542974750720">https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1245046542974750720

[Barry]

They would say that wouldn't they. They should be issued with disposable coveralls, face shields/goggles and face masks.

The basics are not even being delivered let alone what they should be issued with.

Yes and no.

It depends on the exact treatment or operation that is taking place with the patient.

https://i.ibb.co/xHpMtsy/PPE-levels.jpg">

[papasmurf]

Yeah course you still think it's an overreaction,Trump did too but he's changed his tune,as far as your argument goes 400000 people have died in the Syrian conflict perhaps we should bomb a few middle class homes to even things up.

It can't have been poor people doing all the panic buying so thinning out the middle class would get my vote.

[cromwell]

I still think it's an over reaction, with a mortality rate less than seasonal flu. If this hasn't come from China and been associated with Bats the reaction wouldn't be the same. Middle class white people dying equals pandemonium, poor black African's dying is acceptable. Like I've stated repeatedly, over 600,000 African women die each year from respiratory diseases due to cooking on open fires. Not mentioned ever and no one gives a fig.

Yeah course you still think it's an overreaction,Trump did too but he's changed his tune,as far as your argument goes 400000 people have died in the Syrian conflict perhaps we should bomb a few middle class homes to even things up.

[Thomas]

It's very well quoting his opinion from 3 weeks ago



but he was quite clearly wrong, and I'll tell you why.

The virus is not only invisible it actually hides whilst people are in incubation and simultaneously contagious.

That makes it uncontrollable. There have been a million measured cases in the world in 2 months, the Australians think that with the unmeasured numbers that is likely 10 million. I would dare to say many many more.



The fact the pandemic is quite clearly uncontrolled is due to its nature and Tedros would be well advised to admit he was wrong.

Experts are often wrong when they give opinions.

Thats a different argument to the point i am making though barry.



I did say i wasnt arguing wether the herd immunity  /managed epidemic strategy was right or wrong.Im simply picking up the point that patman post is trying to spin this wasnt the original uk government strategy when it was.



They were then , rightly or wrongly ,forced to change it and then the spin doctors ,as the buzzfeed piece sets out , went out and tried to claim this wasnt the uk governments original position. Just as patman is doing.

[papasmurf]

  They claim that it's in line with WHO recommendations for Covid-19.

They would say that wouldn't they. They should be issued with disposable coveralls, face shields/goggles and face masks.

The basics are not even being delivered let alone what they should be issued with.

[Javert]

From the poor bastards at the sharp end. What is being stated officially by NHS management and government and the reality are two very different things. (Frankly they are both lying bastards.)

The local GP practice has been given faceshields "knife and forked" by an armed services technician from bits and pieces in the workshop. (I hope he does not get court martialled.)

The lack of PPE is a disgrace, I suspect my wife and I have more in our event first aid kit, than is available to the local medical profession.

Unless matter have changed dramatically in the last few days there are only 15 ICU beds in Cornwall.

This PPE issues is one of the things I'm trying to figure out in more detail.



I'm not yet sure how much of it is truly that the recommended PPE is not available and not where it should be, and how much of it is that doctors disagree with the NHS guidelines - I've seen photos of medical staff complaining of the apalling lack of PPE, but they are currently wearing the recommended NHS PPE for what they are supposed to be doing at that moment, so some of this may be a perception of not feeling safe rather than a real danger - I am not sure yet because I have not seen detailed information about whether the current NHS PPE recommendations are good.  They claim that it's in line with WHO recommendations for Covid-19.

[Nick]

Well I will,let's face it Nick not so long ago you were telling us it was all over reaction,just a few runny noses and you couldn't believe all the hype about hospitals unable to cope.



Perhaps you still believe that to be true in the face of what is happening.

I still think it's an over reaction, with a mortality rate less than seasonal flu. If this hasn't come from China and been associated with Bats the reaction wouldn't be the same. Middle class white people dying equals pandemonium, poor black African's dying is acceptable. Like I've stated repeatedly, over 600,000 African women die each year from respiratory diseases due to cooking on open fires. Not mentioned ever and no one gives a fig.

[papasmurf]

Interesting.  Would you mind sharing how you are getting this information?  Also roughly what area you live at?  The NHS has set that they already ahve existing plans even in normal times to move people to other hospitals if ICU capacity at one hospital overflows.

From the poor bastards at the sharp end. What is being stated officially by NHS management and government and the reality are two very different things. (Frankly they are both lying bastards.)

The local GP practice has been given faceshields "knife and forked" by an armed services technician from bits and pieces in the workshop. (I hope he does not get court martialled.)

The lack of PPE is a disgrace, I suspect my wife and I have more in our event first aid kit, than is available to the local medical profession.

Unless matter have changed dramatically in the last few days there are only 15 ICU beds in Cornwall.

[Javert]

It is the exact situation where I live, there are VERY few ICU beds. Promises of this week next week sometime never for any increases in ICU kit, ventilators, PPE kit, when too late was two months ago.

Interesting.  Would you mind sharing how you are getting this information?  Also roughly what area you live at?  The NHS has set that they already ahve existing plans even in normal times to move people to other hospitals if ICU capacity at one hospital overflows.

[cromwell]

Maybe, but that is a far cry from saying the year is written off, in April.



As with all of our conversations on this subject we will see who is right. I believe history will not remember it.

Well I will,let's face it Nick not so long ago you were telling us it was all over reaction,just a few runny noses and you couldn't believe all the hype about hospitals unable to cope.



Perhaps you still believe that to be true in the face of what is happening.

[Nick]

That's quite rude if you are referring to me. I think it is time to simply be realistic. Some wish it to be nothing but a little sniffle. Those living through it

and worse might not agree. We do know what's happening. We know that there are remedies that don't work. We know that human trials are happening for vaccines and tests for antibodies. We know that a lot of people are working hard to find a way through. We also know that those on the front line are risking their own lives and dying, trying to save people, some of whom no doubt thought it wouldn't affect them and were determined to carry on as normal.

It was a generalisation 😊.

[T00ts]

That's just supposition T00ts.



We don't know what is happening in the background or even if there is a vaccine being tested at the moment. Governments work this way to avoid hysteria but clearly some in society can generate this on their own.

That's quite rude if you are referring to me. I think it is time to simply be realistic. Some wish it to be nothing but a little sniffle. Those living through it

and worse might not agree. We do know what's happening. We know that there are remedies that don't work. We know that human trials are happening for vaccines and tests for antibodies. We know that a lot of people are working hard to find a way through. We also know that those on the front line are risking their own lives and dying, trying to save people, some of whom no doubt thought it wouldn't affect them and were determined to carry on as normal.