What are we coming to?

[Thomas]

Well, we certainly agree that the countries overpopulation due to immigration is down to the government.

Which country?



We agree your country is struggling to cope with its population in certain areas , and your government is to blame past and present , but my countries underpopulation is also down to your government past and present.



Thats why your government in your country should have no say in immigration to my country.

Honestly, it's great here, it's like little England.

I know mate i know lincolnshire fairly well. We caravan  , and travel all over the place in our spare time , and my wife is from the south east of england just down the road from you.



From memory its a tiny wee place less than half the size of my own native strathclyde , with less than half the population. A few fishing villages and farms.

Most places have very few foreigners, and political correctness is something that happens in other counties.

 :-?



Are you taking the piss ?



Earlier on you were telling me lincolnshire is inundated by the hordes of transylvania , moldavia , and bulgaria , with every village in the carpathians emptied into statics on lincolnshire farmland , now you tell us there are actually very few foreigners?



What happened then wriggle about all this mass immigration from eastern europe you were on about  , and all the albanians eating your swans?



What did you once happen to see a romanian girl on the till at aldi in boston or something? ::

The Barnett formula makes Scotland a massive burden around the necks of the English tax payer,

Well no it doesnt mate. You dont read too well do you wiggle?



With 8.9 % of the population , scotland gives england 9.6 % taxes , and england gives scotland back 9.3 % to spend , a net subsidy to england.



No one likes the barnett formula , the argument isnt about getting rid of , but what to replace it with . Westminster need scotlands hard earned cash , so dont want the scottish government collecting scottish taxes. Instead they have to be sent down south  , and then a bit of pocket money sent back.



its funny even old hammond , the former chancellor recently hinted about scotland subsidising the uk ....



https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/A5_debt_s1-600x428.jpg">



What a strange comment for philip to make .

Finally, I forgot about the oil you have that was dug up using the Uk's taxes, however, I believe there isn't that much left now.

We havent dug up any oil using anyones taxes wiggle.



I think you will find its companies like shell  , headquartered in the netherlands , or bp headquartered in london for example who operate there.

however, I believe there isn't that much left now.

 :roll:  :: Oh no is there none left wiggle ?



Never heard that one before.....

"The oil will run out by 1994."

(Labour MP Tony Benn, May 1979)



"The oil will run out by 2000."

(Labour MP Ioan Evans, February 1980)



"Oil and gas will run out by the end of the 1980s."

(Tory MPs Timothy Eggart and Peter Rost, January 1982)



"Oil will be running out by 1989."

(Labour MP Jeff Rooker, April 1984)



"The UK Government has spent 30 years suppressing its own report telling the Scots how rich oil would make them with independence."

(The Independent, December 2005)



– "Norway's oil fund grew by 18% in 2012 to £450bn."

(BBC News, March 2013)



– "Poverty in Scotland at its worst in 30 years."

(The Herald, March 2013)



"Alistair Darling is pocketing an extra £13m A DAY thanks to soaring oil prices."

(The Sun, April 2008)



"North Sea oil could run out by 2018."

(The Guardian, May 2008)



"North Sea oil will last another 100 years."

(The Telegraph, June 2008)



"High oil and gas prices could lead to a Treasury tax windfall."

(Alistair Darling on BBC News, June 2008)



"Soaring oil prices could hold back the economic recovery."

(Alistair Darling in the Evening Standard, June 2009)



"Collapsing oil revenue will turn the whole UK into a banana republic!"

(The Telegraph, November 2009)



"Scotland faces bill of £30bn after North Sea oil runs out."

(The Scotsman, April 2012)



"North Sea oil will last for another 50 years."

(Daily Express, September 2012)



"Declining oil revenue will leave Scotland worse off than the UK."

(The Telegraph, November 2012)



"The trouble with oil is that it's a tremendously volatile diminishing asset."

(Alistair Darling in the Paisley Daily Express, December 2012)



"Oil and gas decline to halt as investment booms."

(Reuters, January 2013)



"North Sea oil to give George Osborne £25bn boost."

(The Telegraph, February 2013)



"It's not Scotland's oil, it's Shetland's."

(Tavish Scott in The Shetland Times, March 2013)



"It's definitely Scotland's oil."

(Vince Cable in The Telegraph, March 2013)



"Falling oil revenues will mean savage public spending cuts or tax rises."

(Vince Cable in the Scotsman, March 2013)



"Oil and gas will play a vital role in British energy needs for decades to come."

(Vince Cable in the Daily Record, March 2013)



"There are probably billions of barrels still to be found in Scottish waters, which is why we're investing billions of pounds in looking for it."

(New York Times, March 2013)



"Oil revenue is volatile, and declining, and cheap gas from fracking will probably make it completely worthless."

(The Scotsman, March 2013)



"North Sea oil and gas have a long and bright future."

(UK energy minister John Hayes, March 2013)



"There's no bright future for oil revenue."

(Dumfries And Galloway Standard, March 2013)



"Analysts believe that Clair, along with other developments [in Scottish waters to the west of Shetland], could lead to the Atlantic overtaking the North Sea as the UK's biggest oil-producing region within 20 years."

(BBC News, March 2013)



"Scotland will be so rich from oil you won't be able to handle it by yourselves!"

(The Telegraph, March 2013)

 ::

[T00ts]

Light the touch paper and stand back a fair distance together and wear protective clothing including goggles!

[Wiggles]

of course we would have leavers demanding another referendum . Demanding another referendum isnt the current issue is it? :roll:  ::



Its demanding another referndum with out the first being implemented that is the issue.



If remain had won , the referendum result would have been seen to have been implemented , and then leavers could protest about another referendum legitimately.







What are you talking about ? Are you seriously telling me you dont think scotland has eastern european immigration?



Scotlands current population from memory is 20 % non scottish by birth. If that isnt high immigration , i dont know what is.









You have always had that control , but for a long time both labour and conservatives have chosen not to control immigration . For example last year migration watch said there were more non european migrants coming to the uk than european , so why werent your government on the ball with this?





Both tory and labour have failed miserably to control immigration , much of it non eu , and that wont change in the future.







I seem to understand it better than you. ::



All you seem to be doing is copying and pasting shite you read in newspapers .No one denies england doesnt have a problem with overpopualtion , its how you got there ,who is to blame and how to sort it going forward that is the issue no one agrees on.





so why arent you building enough houses to house your native population then? There isnt any eu law that says you cant.



While i agree there is pros and cons to eu membership , the idea the eu is to blame for high immigration and lack of housing is a fantasy.



If you are looking for a scapegoat blame westminster past and present no one else.









The uk isnt a country .I appreciate out in the lincolnshire sticks where everyone has webbed feet and lots of interbreeding and lack of schooling occurs , history politcs and geography arent the staple diet , but you really must try and brush up.



The uk is a multi national state made up of four nations , in what is called a union.( however unequal.)







Have you been drinking lincolnshire hooch when writing this wiggle.







With 8.9 % of the current uk popualtion , scotland gets 9.3 % of the spending but contributes 9.6 % of the taxation without oil.



Thats a net subsidy from scotland to england.



With 8.9% of the population scotland exports twice per head of popualtion as england does , and has 96% oil reserves , 90 % of the uk freshwater , 62 % of seafood landings , 60 % of natural gas production and 40% of wind wave and solar energy output , often subsidinsing england with power on a regular basis.



The question isnt wether we could survive independent , but wether england could afford to lose us.

Well, we certainly agree that the countries overpopulation due to immigration is down to the government. Agree also with you about Lincolnshire people having webbed feet, thank God I moved here when I retired. Honestly, it's great here, it's like little England. Most places have very few foreigners, and political correctness is something that happens in other counties. Apologies about the typo in my last post, I meant Scotland wanted to stay in the EU, not UK. Again I apologise for referring to the UK as a country, as of course, it isn't. Personally I would like to see all four countries within the UK go it alone, but I can't see that happening any time soon. I find your comment regarding England's survival without Scotland quite strange. The Barnett formula makes Scotland a massive burden around the necks of the English tax payer, so I am sure we would manage thank you. Finally, I forgot about the oil you have that was dug up using the Uk's taxes, however, I believe there isn't that much left now.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Thanks John, that's helped to refresh my memory. I don't think you get these stories on the BBC's "looking back" reports.

[Barry]

His name was David Wilkie and he paid the ultimate price for helping a man to go to work, which was his right.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie">//https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

[johnofgwent]

During the miner's strike some protestors were dropping concrete blocks off a bridge over a motorway. You know very well that it likely to kill some innocent person, but i seem to remember there was some controversy regarding the left in that these people still made it in leftwing political circles. My memory is faded regarding the details, but it was definitely concrete blocks, motorway and miner's strike.



So you see they are that kind of animal and always will be. The bottom line is the left wish to rule by force, whereas the right go for the market deciding everything, at least for all normal goods. Leftwing is all about fascism, be it the mild sort or worse. We have to get rid of them.

They DID kill someone. A taxi driver taking a strike breaker to work. The man controlling those pickets was Communist Party Officer and Labour member Kim Howells, given the safe labour seat of Pontypridd and later a Privy Council seat as a reward.



A woman recently given an honorary degree by Cardiff's school of journalism cut her teeth so to speak as a wet behind the ears  reporter for Cardiff RadioTrust as it was when I was among the founder shareholders, myself an undergrad student then many, many years ago.



She told the degree ceremony audience (most dyed in the wool Marxists of course) how she followed the police to the picket coordination centre (a portakabin paid for by the Communist party) where they found Howells furiously shredding papers like a man employed by Enron.



The audience of Corbynista to be didn't like to hear these facts one bit.



It was a marvellous morning.i was there on paper to watch my daughter collect her degree, but afterwards I made myself known to the journalists... Who remembered me largely for being the last bastion against capitalist overthrow of the Radio Trust. They needed the approval of EVERY founder shareholder and I saw no particular hurry to make myself known at the time, as I'd long since moved not once but three times ...

[Paulus de B]

If Remain had won, Leave would still be protesting, but they'd be wasting their time.  Remain won in '75 and it took 41 years to get another referendum.  Even that wouldn't have been permitted if Remain hadn't been convinced of victory, and they've spent every second since then bewailing their own stupidity in allowing the people to choose (as well as bewailing the people's stupidity in choosing 'wrongly').  If Remain had won in '16, there's not the remotest chance that they would have taken the risk a third time.  Never mind 4 decades, it would be 4 centuries before they ever let the democratic genie out of the box.

[papasmurf]

If the remain vote had of won does anyone think the leavers would still be protesting,

Well Farage is still alive. So yes there would be protesting.

[Thomas]

Some of what you say I agree with, most I don't.



Of course, Farage would still be carrying on the fight, but we wouldn't have protesters outside parliament demanding another referendum.

of course we would have leavers demanding another referendum . Demanding another referendum isnt the current issue is it? :roll:  ::



Its demanding another referndum with out the first being implemented that is the issue.



If remain had won , the referendum result would have been seen to have been implemented , and then leavers could protest about another referendum legitimately.

The influx of East Europeans has been a nightmare for England, and you are lucky you haven't had to experience it in Scotland.

What are you talking about ? Are you seriously telling me you dont think scotland has eastern european immigration?



Scotlands current population from memory is 20 % non scottish by birth. If that isnt high immigration , i dont know what is.

I am not totally opposed to immigration from Europe, or any other country, but we have to have control, and being part of the EU doesn't allow this.

You have always had that control , but for a long time both labour and conservatives have chosen not to control immigration . For example last year migration watch said there were more non european migrants coming to the uk than european , so why werent your government on the ball with this?





Both tory and labour have failed miserably to control immigration , much of it non eu , and that wont change in the future.

Living in a country where emigration is greater than immigration, you won't understand this.

I seem to understand it better than you. ::



All you seem to be doing is copying and pasting shite you read in newspapers .No one denies england doesnt have a problem with overpopualtion , its how you got there ,who is to blame and how to sort it going forward that is the issue no one agrees on.

So, in brief, we would be building houses for people who wouldn't or couldn't pay to live in them.

so why arent you building enough houses to house your native population then? There isnt any eu law that says you cant.



While i agree there is pros and cons to eu membership , the idea the eu is to blame for high immigration and lack of housing is a fantasy.



If you are looking for a scapegoat blame westminster past and present no one else.

The UK is only one of four countries that supply a new income to the EU

The uk isnt a country .I appreciate out in the lincolnshire sticks where everyone has webbed feet and lots of interbreeding and lack of schooling occurs , history politcs and geography arent the staple diet , but you really must try and brush up.



The uk is a multi national state made up of four nations , in what is called a union.( however unequal.)

If Scotland were to go it alone, I appreciate remaining in the UK would be beneficial

Have you been drinking lincolnshire hooch when writing this wiggle.

as only being able to produce whisky, haggis, and man skirts, it wouldn't survive without help, but for England it's a different story.

With 8.9 % of the current uk popualtion , scotland gets 9.3 % of the spending but contributes 9.6 % of the taxation without oil.



Thats a net subsidy from scotland to england.



With 8.9% of the population scotland exports twice per head of popualtion as england does , and has 96% oil reserves , 90 % of the uk freshwater , 62 % of seafood landings , 60 % of natural gas production and 40% of wind wave and solar energy output , often subsidinsing england with power on a regular basis.



The question isnt wether we could survive independent , but wether england could afford to lose us.

[Wiggles]

...and what do you base this on? Not only did we have nigel farage say if remain won he would carry on the fight , but of course leavers would be out carrying on protesting against the eu. Why wouldnt they in that scenario?



You may disagree with remainers protesting , i dont , i think it is an inalienable right to protest and fight for what you believe in , and leavers would have been no different had it gone the other way.



While we all disagree with the schenanigans of the remainers in westminster , this shouldnt be conflated with the right to protest outside of it.







sorry wiggle but this really is nonsense.



While i agree the 2016 referendum should be implemented to appease democracy , the idea immigration is going to stop or reduce down to a level where employers will be throwing jobs at young people  , giving them better wages , training people up and having houses given to them on the cheap is nothing more than delusion and fantasy.



Your prime minister has already hinted that he and his party want to open immigration up to not just the eu , but the world , where they will replace the eastern european with the african or asian .



As for property , englands problem is it has too big a population on too small land , england only makes up 40% of the land of these islands and could fit in france 5 times over.



On top of that your elite for centuries have concentrated power ,wealth and industry around the south east , and in modern times you havent been building anywhere near enough houses long before tony blair opened the floodgates to eastern europeans.



Blaming immigration for many of englands severe problems while thinking brexit is going to stop immigration or bring it down to manageable levels is a fantasy.



Every country on this earth is suffering from immigration of some sort , not only has it been a constant since year dot throughout human history , but it has taken humanity tens of thousands of years to get to 1 billion people , and in the last 100 years alone we have jumped a further 6 billion despite two world wars killing millions in between.



Englands badly damaged housing market , with its dodgy selling process and overheated prices where the average rent/mortgage in england in £1000 per month from an average salary of  around £1900 per month is going to take more than the deportation and restriction of a few eastern europeans to sort.



Employers and  large business are going to keep demanding the supply of cheap imported ready made labour , irrespective of where it comes from.



The government dont want the stabilising of house prices. An old customer of mine was once high up in HMRC , and i always remember him telling me years ago , stamp duty on houses was such a poor earner the government of the day thought about getting rid of it , now it is a massive earner for them.



The government could easily bring in  a programme to flood england with houses  , bringing the prices down in the process and make more council houses available and stop the sale of them as we have in scotland , but they dont.



...and it isnt because of eastern european immigrants.

Some of what you say I agree with, most I don't.



Of course, Farage would still be carrying on the fight, but we wouldn't have protesters outside parliament demanding another referendum. Do you think we would have some plonker with a megaphone shouting "start Brexit" on a daily basis?



The influx of East Europeans has been a nightmare for England, and you are lucky you haven't had to experience it in Scotland. Large sections of towns and cities made no go zones by Polish and Romanian thugs. I have Boston half an hour up the road from me. It used to be a lovely town, but you wouldn't risk going there after dark now. For some years employers have stopped training people because they can get cheap labour in from Eastern Europe. Tradesman such as brick layers and plasterers have had to work for a fraction of the money. This wouldn't be so bad if houses were cheaper as a result, but they aren't. I am not totally opposed to immigration from Europe, or any other country, but we have to have control, and being part of the EU doesn't allow this. Living in a country where emigration is greater than immigration, you won't understand this.



Finally, you have touched on a subject close to my heart. We have more than enough houses, we have to many people. Tell the guy who has had his house on the market for the last year that there aren't enough houses. What you mean is there isn't enough houses that people can live in for nothing. Most social housing is occupied by the lazy slobs who refuse to work, or claim they can't. If we built a million new homes would the local authorities put Mr and Mrs Smith in them, who both work full time and would pay the rent on time, or would they fill them with social security scroungers and asylum seekers? You know the answer. So, in brief, we would be building houses for people who wouldn't or couldn't pay to live in them.



The UK is only one of four countries that supply a new income to the EU. This is like having a bank account that returns 95p for every £1 invested. If Scotland were to go it alone, I appreciate remaining in the UK would be beneficial, as only being able to produce whisky, haggis, and man skirts, it wouldn't survive without help, but for England it's a different story.

[Thomas]

If the remain vote had of won does anyone think the leavers would still be protesting, of course not.

...and what do you base this on? Not only did we have nigel farage say if remain won he would carry on the fight , but of course leavers would be out carrying on protesting against the eu. Why wouldnt they in that scenario?



You may disagree with remainers protesting , i dont , i think it is an inalienable right to protest and fight for what you believe in , and leavers would have been no different had it gone the other way.



While we all disagree with the schenanigans of the remainers in westminster , this shouldnt be conflated with the right to protest outside of it.

The strange thing about Brexit is that the people who voted for it have little to gain, whereas the remainers are more likely to gain from it, but don't want it. This is to say the younger generation will find it easier to find jobs, will almost certainly be able to demand a better salary, and employers will have to start training again. Without the influx of Eastern Europeans there may well be more vacant properties, which in turn may stabilise house prices

sorry wiggle but this really is nonsense.



While i agree the 2016 referendum should be implemented to appease democracy , the idea immigration is going to stop or reduce down to a level where employers will be throwing jobs at young people  , giving them better wages , training people up and having houses given to them on the cheap is nothing more than delusion and fantasy.



Your prime minister has already hinted that he and his party want to open immigration up to not just the eu , but the world , where they will replace the eastern european with the african or asian .



As for property , englands problem is it has too big a population on too small land , england only makes up 40% of the land of these islands and could fit in france 5 times over.



On top of that your elite for centuries have concentrated power ,wealth and industry around the south east , and in modern times you havent been building anywhere near enough houses long before tony blair opened the floodgates to eastern europeans.



Blaming immigration for many of englands severe problems while thinking brexit is going to stop immigration or bring it down to manageable levels is a fantasy.



Every country on this earth is suffering from immigration of some sort , not only has it been a constant since year dot throughout human history , but it has taken humanity tens of thousands of years to get to 1 billion people , and in the last 100 years alone we have jumped a further 6 billion despite two world wars killing millions in between.



Englands badly damaged housing market , with its dodgy selling process and overheated prices where the average rent/mortgage in england in £1000 per month from an average salary of  around £1900 per month is going to take more than the deportation and restriction of a few eastern europeans to sort.



Employers and  large business are going to keep demanding the supply of cheap imported ready made labour , irrespective of where it comes from.



The government dont want the stabilising of house prices. An old customer of mine was once high up in HMRC , and i always remember him telling me years ago , stamp duty on houses was such a poor earner the government of the day thought about getting rid of it , now it is a massive earner for them.



The government could easily bring in  a programme to flood england with houses  , bringing the prices down in the process and make more council houses available and stop the sale of them as we have in scotland , but they dont.



...and it isnt because of eastern european immigrants.

[Wiggles]

If the remain vote had of won does anyone think the leavers would still be protesting, of course not. The strange thing about Brexit is that the people who voted for it have little to gain, whereas the remainers are more likely to gain from it, but don't want it. This is to say the younger generation will find it easier to find jobs, will almost certainly be able to demand a better salary, and employers will have to start training again. Without the influx of Eastern Europeans there may well be more vacant properties, which in turn may stabilise house prices. To be honest, the list of advantages goes on and on. I am retired, voted leave, but will be dead before I see the country benefit. Strange old world, aint it ?

[Baron von Lotsov]

The remain/people's vote rally outside Westminster who, we have been told, are better educated, more knowledgeable, true Europeans and presumably much more sensible that the Brexit lot, decided it was in their interests today to barrack, threaten and insult Brexit MPs as they left the Commons to go home. JRM was walking with his 12 year old son, Peter, surrounded by police to protect them from the abuse. How civilised!

During the miner's strike some protestors were dropping concrete blocks off a bridge over a motorway. You know very well that it likely to kill some innocent person, but i seem to remember there was some controversy regarding the left in that these people still made it in leftwing political circles. My memory is faded regarding the details, but it was definitely concrete blocks, motorway and miner's strike.



So you see they are that kind of animal and always will be. The bottom line is the left wish to rule by force, whereas the right go for the market deciding everything, at least for all normal goods. Leftwing is all about fascism, be it the mild sort or worse. We have to get rid of them.

[Cassie]

The remain/people's vote rally outside Westminster who, we have been told, are better educated, more knowledgeable, true Europeans and presumably much more sensible that the Brexit lot, decided it was in their interests today to barrack, threaten and insult Brexit MPs as they left the Commons to go home. JRM was walking with his 12 year old son, Peter, surrounded by police to protect them from the abuse. How civilised!

I think remainers have always been rude and abusive toward leave voters.

[T00ts]

The remain/people's vote rally outside Westminster who, we have been told, are better educated, more knowledgeable, true Europeans and presumably much more sensible that the Brexit lot, decided it was in their interests today to barrack, threaten and insult Brexit MPs as they left the Commons to go home. JRM was walking with his 12 year old son, Peter, surrounded by police to protect them from the abuse. How civilised!