This deal is no good either

[Cassie]

Kier Starmer, as an ex DPP has a forensic lawyer's mind and I found his speech in the Commons quite revealing. He also had quite a moment when Barclay had said what appeared to be false about a meeting where they had both been present. It's people like KS who would be a real threat to the Tories when Wurzel is out of the way after the election in November.

I've got more respect for KS than many Tories, but he would need a sensible team, instead of the current momentum led extremists, to do well for his party and country.

I think the deal might pass tomorrow, although there is bound to be some amendment or other. (2nd reffo anyone?).

That's what they going to go for I think.

[Barry]

Kier Starmer, as an ex DPP has a forensic lawyer's mind and I found his speech in the Commons quite revealing. He also had quite a moment when Barclay had said what appeared to be false about a meeting where they had both been present. It's people like KS who would be a real threat to the Tories when Wurzel is out of the way after the election in November.

I've got more respect for KS than many Tories, but he would need a sensible team, instead of the current momentum led extremists, to do well for his party and country.

I think the deal might pass tomorrow, although there is bound to be some amendment or other. (2nd reffo anyone?).

[T00ts]

If you've got a few hours to kill, here's some light reading:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration">//https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration

New Withdrawal Agreement



New Political Declaration



Declaration on consent in Northern Ireland



Statement that political agreement has been reached

Oh gosh there's a challenge! I found it interesting that Starmer had gone through both deals side by side and although I could see that his argument was to support his position he pointed up differences that have largely gone unreported. Just seemingly small changes of wording or omissions from a number of clauses that he believed made big differences to the end goal. Something about us having the ability to diverge from the EU while NI was not, and the situation at the end of the transition period which as he put it, was not so straight forward as it first appeared but led to forming a whole new social model. It was above my head I'm afraid but I do think in these times of endemic obfuscation that we should perhaps be a bit careful what we are led to believe. Perhaps this will come out over the next few days as they debate it.

[Barry]

If you've got a few hours to kill, here's some light reading:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration">//https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration

New Withdrawal Agreement



New Political Declaration



Declaration on consent in Northern Ireland



Statement that political agreement has been reached

[T00ts]

If the ERG are prepared to support it, I would suggest it must be an acceptable compromise.

The ERG always vowed to support the DUP. Now they are on opposite sides.

[Thomas]

If the ERG are prepared to support it, I would suggest it must be an acceptable compromise.

If this deal isnt any good , what im wondering then is what brexiters actually want?



If you have two opposing sides who are under no obligation to agree anything , then surely as you say the word here is compromise?



Meeting half way is the only acceptable way forward.



The point again though is johnson appears to have done resonably well from a brexiters point of view , against the backdrop of a parliament voting against any and every issue that forwards brexit in any way shape or form.



The time must now surely be for a general election to attempt to resolve this?

[Barry]

If the ERG are prepared to support it, I would suggest it must be an acceptable compromise.

[Cassie]

I think we need to pull back slightly and just take a careful look at the new deal. At the same time it might be worth looking carefully at just what is happening in parliament.

As I see it we are scheduled to leave no deal on 31st. Is the new deal really any better than Mrs May's?



At the time of Mrs May's deal it was said that it would leave us as a vassal state within the EU for ever. Was that just the backstop effect or something bigger? Does this deal even though it changes the backstop actually free us from the EU? Was Starmer's very carefully analysis yesterday on point? Does it matter?



Lots of questions and so far lots of opinions but I just wonder if there is still a sub plot. Somehow to leave without a deal on 31st Oct more with a whisper than a bang?

Probably not much better, but if we don't take this, I feel it will be no Brexit. The  EU won't keep opening the WA and no- deal has been taken off the table.

[Nick]

It allows us to make trade deals and therefore establish ourselves back in the world. Once that's done we can tell the EU to swivel.

[T00ts]

I think we need to pull back slightly and just take a careful look at the new deal. At the same time it might be worth looking carefully at just what is happening in parliament.

As I see it we are scheduled to leave no deal on 31st. Is the new deal really any better than Mrs May's?



At the time of Mrs May's deal it was said that it would leave us as a vassal state within the EU for ever. Was that just the backstop effect or something bigger? Does this deal even though it changes the backstop actually free us from the EU? Was Starmer's very carefully analysis yesterday on point? Does it matter?



Lots of questions and so far lots of opinions but I just wonder if there is still a sub plot. Somehow to leave without a deal on 31st Oct more with a whisper than a bang?