This deal is no good either

[Cassie]

The only plan they seem to agree on is taking time to amend the bill in every way possible - to the point that it becomes remain.

That's exactly why they want time to 'scrutinise' it despite voting for it and saying it almost May's deal.

[T00ts]

The only plan they seem to agree on is taking time to amend the bill in every way possible - to the point that it becomes remain.

[Thomas]

My apologies. I did see the headline that Mr Johnsin paused the bill to wait for a response from the EU but it slipped my mind.



There seems to be considerable risk associated with MP's being expected to support a bill they haven't scrutinised adequately.



I empathise with the frustration of those who want to see Brexit done (or at least the withdrawal agreement stage) given how much time has passed since the referendum but I can't agree with this bill being passed without property scrutiny since is probably one of those important bills that has been put before parliament in recent memory.



Why doesn't Mr Johnson want it to be properly reviewed? I heard yesterday that the government hasn't done an impact assesment on the new deal so even they are going into this blind.



When did it stop mattering whether the withdrawal deal was a good, or at least and acceptable deal?

In principal , i totally agree any sensible person on this planet would want to read and scrutinise something before they agree to it.



...but we arent talking about sensible people.



On the one hand , you have labour mps like jim fittzpatrick saying they support the legislation even though they admit they havent read it , on the other hand you have people like jo swinson saying no matter whats in the legislation she and her party will not vote for brexit.



I would say practically everyone in that place has already made their minds up about the bill before they have read a single scrap of information of what is in it , its called tribal politics ciaphas.

[Ciaphas]

He isnt pulling the bill. From what i understand he is pausing it. I appreciate things are moving very quickly though.



I think he would be best accepting he isnt going to leave by halloween , and go all out trying to get a general election.







I appreciate this new WA is slightly different from mays , but the point is that palriament has had years to come up with a plan to brexit and have voted againt practically everything apart from delay and obfusticate.



Demanding time to scrutinise it might sound logical , but in reality for the majority of them its nothing more than a chance to delay and point score against johnson.









Brexit is going to happen ,and its time that parliament accepted that fact , and stopped delaying the inevitable.



On top of that labour are going to take the beating of their existence for how they have behaved , at the next general election.

My apologies. I did see the headline that Mr Johnsin paused the bill to wait for a response from the EU but it slipped my mind.



There seems to be considerable risk associated with MP's being expected to support a bill they haven't scrutinised adequately.



I empathise with the frustration of those who want to see Brexit done (or at least the withdrawal agreement stage) given how much time has passed since the referendum but I can't agree with this bill being passed without property scrutiny since is probably one of those important bills that has been put before parliament in recent memory.



Why doesn't Mr Johnson want it to be properly reviewed? I heard yesterday that the government hasn't done an impact assesment on the new deal so even they are going into this blind.



When did it stop mattering whether the withdrawal deal was a good, or at least and acceptable deal?

[papasmurf]

Yes, you mean it failed as tactical voting did in Wales, recently.

People need to know what they are voting for. A party with a proper manifesto they will stick to, instead of going in a different direction once in power. Which party would that be, as I can't think of one.  :|

Actually it did work In that some 60 Tory seats are now marginal. It always has been a long term process.

I would not be at all surprised if Iain Duncan Smith gets kicked out this time.

[Barry]

There has been a vote tactically to keep the Tories out for several years but I don't think is has a website.

(Came close to getting rid of Iain Duncan Smith at the last general election.)

Yes, you mean it failed as tactical voting did in Wales, recently.

People need to know what they are voting for. A party with a proper manifesto they will stick to, instead of going in a different direction once in power. Which party would that be, as I can't think of one.  :|

[papasmurf]

Gina Miler is setting up a website or something for tactical voting so that remain voters can make sure they stop Brexit, yet she refuses to say that she wants to remain in the EU. Take that   :kikass:  you lying @@@@@.

There has been a vote tactically to keep the Tories out for several years but I don't think is has a website.

(Came close to getting rid of Iain Duncan Smith at the last general election.)

[Cassie]

Gina Miler is setting up a website or something for tactical voting so that remain voters can make sure they stop Brexit, yet she refuses to say that she wants to remain in the EU. Take that   :kikass:  you lying @@@@@.

[Sheepy]

There is one other factor. We have Bercow for only another 8 days. He has been such an ally to the opp parties that without him life might well be very different.



I wonder how much Labour can risk public opinion turning against him even more. There was a certain euphoria yesterday that at last BJ won a vote although I still don't like the bill, and up to now Corbyn may have had a certain sympathy. But the public need for this to go away may backfire against him if he is seen to block everything much longer.

If I was the Westminster party I wouldn't be betting all my chips on the reliance the drones will turn up for us once again.

[T00ts]

There is one other factor. We have Bercow for only another 8 days. He has been such an ally to the opp parties that without him life might well be very different.



I wonder how much Labour can risk public opinion turning against him even more. There was a certain euphoria yesterday that at last BJ won a vote although I still don't like the bill, and up to now Corbyn may have had a certain sympathy. But the public need for this to go away may backfire against him if he is seen to block everything much longer.

[papasmurf]

General Elections are won or lost on a number of issues. Brexit will not be the only one.

Tory austerity and welfare reform policies have been a disaster for million of people.

The next general election is not as cut and dried as you think.

Many millions of people don't just dislike the Tories, they hate them. One of the few things Iain Duncan Smith ever got right. (Which is why his formally safe seat is now a Tory marginal.)

[Cassie]

im not sure why you think brexit wont happen cassie.?



Is this doom and gloom talking , or some sort of reverse psychology where you say the worst but hope for the best?



Brexit will  happen , while it has massive support in your countries electorate as it clearly does. While labour as ever are on the opposite side of the public will , the tories as ever have grasped the bull by the horns going from a remain party to  a leave party over the last four years.



I think johnson may have been angling along for a general election all along , knowing full well that parliament will block and delay everything he does at every turn till may 2022 while hoping for a public change i mood for brexit.



Although he needs a two thirds majority to call a GE under the fixed term parliament act , as i understand it he only needs a 51% majority to repeal it.



So hopefully we are headed for a general election in the next few months , and if you think about it the eu might want that too in line with their extension as a way forward.



Time to put to the test all the bollocks remainers have been coming out with about no one wanting brexit now. Personally i predict a tory landslide , hope the snp win a landslide here , and labour and libs get a severe kicking.



Then once in power with a majority , johnson can do as he pleases , overturn any previous legislation and hard brexit if he so chooses.



So im no sure where your doubt is coming from.



Bet you english remainers are having bigger doubts about their flawed strategy of overturning democracy than you are of brexit happening.

The minority opposition 'government' will not allow a GE  until possibly 2022. Why would Labour vote for one when they have the upper hand in Parliament, knowing that their own voters in leave constituencies will not vote for Corbyn. The majority of MPs in the House of Horrors want to remain and they will stop at nothing until that is achieved. MP after MP is rolled in front of the telly saying that at all costs we must avoid falling of a cliff edge which is no-deal, yet they wouldn't allow a deal to go through. It won't happen Thomas, they keep moving the goalposts.Eventually they will score with a revoke article 50.

[Thomas]

I doubt that Brexit will happen, the only reason they want to delay the bill passing is so they can stick amendments onto it, referendum, customs union etc. That's why Boris has delayed it, he won't give them that.

im not sure why you think brexit wont happen cassie.?



Is this doom and gloom talking , or some sort of reverse psychology where you say the worst but hope for the best?



Brexit will  happen , while it has massive support in your countries electorate as it clearly does. While labour as ever are on the opposite side of the public will , the tories as ever have grasped the bull by the horns going from a remain party to  a leave party over the last four years.



I think johnson may have been angling along for a general election all along , knowing full well that parliament will block and delay everything he does at every turn till may 2022 while hoping for a public change i mood for brexit.



Although he needs a two thirds majority to call a GE under the fixed term parliament act , as i understand it he only needs a 51% majority to repeal it.



So hopefully we are headed for a general election in the next few months , and if you think about it the eu might want that too in line with their extension as a way forward.



Time to put to the test all the bollocks remainers have been coming out with about no one wanting brexit now. Personally i predict a tory landslide , hope the snp win a landslide here , and labour and libs get a severe kicking.



Then once in power with a majority , johnson can do as he pleases , overturn any previous legislation and hard brexit if he so chooses.



So im no sure where your doubt is coming from.



Bet you english remainers are having bigger doubts about their flawed strategy of overturning democracy than you are of brexit happening.

[T00ts]

I think they will try for a GE again. Corbyn will lose face if he turns it down again.

[Cassie]

He isnt pulling the bill. From what i understand he is pausing it. I appreciate things are moving very quickly though.



I think he would be best accepting he isnt going to leave by halloween , and go all out trying to get a general election.







I appreciate this new WA is slightly different from mays , but the point is that palriament has had years to come up with a plan to brexit and have voted againt practically everything apart from delay and obfusticate.



Demanding time to scrutinise it might sound logical , but in reality for the majority of them its nothing more than a chance to delay and point score against johnson.









Brexit is going to happen ,and its time that parliament accepted that fact , and stopped delaying the inevitable.



On top of that labour are going to take the beating of their existence for how they have behaved , at the next general election.

 I doubt that Brexit will happen, the only reason they want to delay the bill passing is so they can stick amendments onto it, referendum, customs union etc. That's why Boris has delayed it, he won't give them that.