Current thinking on how Covid-19 works (long read)

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

Good point.  So imagine if everlasting vaccines or lockdown (probably a combination) were the only solutions!

There's a third possibility - that being the discovery of an effective treatment or cure.  Various trials are going on, some of which have been claimed to reduce the severity of symptoms to the extent of saving lives or preventing people from becoming seriously ill. If people showing early signs of covid-19 could routinely be given a medication that's almost certain to cure them, then lockdown could be eased and we wouldn't have to wait for a vaccine.

[Scott777]

There are various articles published in the last day or two claiming that Chinese researchers have found that up to 30 strains of SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus are now out there due to mutations, with a suggestion that a more deadly variant emerged in Europe.

Good point.  So imagine if everlasting vaccines or lockdown (probably a combination) were the only solutions!

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

There are various articles published in the last day or two claiming that Chinese researchers have found that up to 30 strains of SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus are now out there due to mutations, with a suggestion that a more deadly variant emerged in Europe.



There are various sources, including the Mail (not one of my favourite sources) so instead of posting links, people can Google "30 strains of coronavirus" and see what comes up.



There's always a danger that a future mutation could lead to an extremely deadly variant. If that had occurred already, would we even know about it if the resulting fatalities were contained in the overall statistics?

[Scott777]

The discussion about the immune system going into cytokine storm, and therefore your immune system is the cause of death, is a bit of a stretch.



Does this mean that if you are shot in the liver, and you die, your cause of death was "liver failure" and the bullets should not be mentioned?  Even if you say, oh, the person was a recovering alcoholic and their liver was already sub optimal, so they might have survived otherwise.  Still then, should the shooter be set free on the basis that if he had shot a person with a perfect liver they would have survived?



The trigger point for the immune system failure and death is some kind of infection or event, and that is the root cause of death i.e. the event that started the chain.  

There is a simple answer to this problem about what the cause of illness is.  What matters most is how you avoid getting really ill.  The article clearly says that it's the immune system attacking healthy cells that makes you ill.  So one solution is to fix your immune system.  But if CV19 is what you call the problem, then the solution is either to wipe it off the face of the earth, or have every human being take mandatory vaccine every year (or even more often), and hope that will protect you, and not make you more ill.  We don't need to find something to "blame", we just need to remove the cause.  Or can you think of another solution?

[Javert]

This thing is the perfect nanobot to cause nuclear meltdown in your key organs

Please don't use the word nanobot otherwise we will be discussing how the smoking man has implanted virus nanobots into people in order to control the population.

[Javert]

A somewhat worrying post, which I hope you can clarify.  Can you summarise the Wiki bits that matter, and/or explain the nanobots?

Fundamentally this is what happens when the infection goes too far and you are susceptible to this type of reaction.  In many cases, your immune system will kill the virus before your immune system gets out of control and/or before the virus manages to get into other organs than your throat and nose.

[Javert]

A good article, although it's way too long to finish.  

I know this isn't a popular viewpoint these days, but if you don't even have the time and/or inclination to read an article that takes about 10-15 minutes to read, how can you then feel qualified to make detailed comments and challenge the conclusions, or to challenge specific points in the article?



The discussion about the immune system going into cytokine storm, and therefore your immune system is the cause of death, is a bit of a stretch.



Does this mean that if you are shot in the liver, and you die, your cause of death was "liver failure" and the bullets should not be mentioned?  Even if you say, oh, the person was a recovering alcoholic and their liver was already sub optimal, so they might have survived otherwise.  Still then, should the shooter be set free on the basis that if he had shot a person with a perfect liver they would have survived?



The trigger point for the immune system failure and death is some kind of infection or event, and that is the root cause of death i.e. the event that started the chain.  The earlier document clearly states that is should be on the death certificate.  The certificate can also mention cytokine storm, kidney failure, heart failure or whatever as the events that were triggered by the initial infection.



I also don't think it's helpful to suggest that this is because some people have a "weaker" immune system than others.  I doubt it's that simple.  Those other people might actually have a stronger immunity to some other completely different type of illness, so it's probably not weak, just different.

[Scott777]

He's like a milk bottle 😂



Unless there is vitamin D in bacon or coke he isn't getting any.

 ::   A lucky sod then.

[Nick]

There are so many factors.  Sunlight is the main source of vitamin D, so maybe he was a sun worshipper!

He's like a milk bottle 😂



Unless there is vitamin D in bacon or coke he isn't getting any.

[johnofgwent]

It isn't that perfect, some people exhibit no symptoms at all.



I have a friend who is probably 28 stone, has diabetes, lost all feeling in his hands and feet due to his diabetes and very poor diet. He refuses to eat any veg at all and drinks copious amounts of pop. 3 year ago he had a triple heart bypass and was admitted to hospital for the 4th time this year, this time with CVD-19. He was put on oxygen and is making a full recovery, work that one out!!

I'd need my lab



But I bet i would work it out.



Life is a funny thing, you can feed two people the same dose of losartan hydrochlorothiazide (the ace2 inhibitor that i take to stop my auricles from fibrillating under megapressure) and you'll see two different sets of results across a wide bell curve. Lab rats bred from the same mother have a 30% "coefficient of variation" in cell cultures of their isolated liver cells in hydroponic suspension.



I'm just over 20 stone but i lost about 50% of the feeling in my toes. I was put on beta blockers to reduce the fibrillation risk, i was told there would be a loss of sensation and as a result thought nothing of it as the diabetes destroyed some of my nerve endings.



Ironically that same damage probably would probably save both me and your friend. I'm betting his cell receptors are irretrievably shot to f**k. I'm betting he breaks into the sort of sweat a marathon runner hits at 23 miles just getting out of bed and walking to the bathroom then down to the kitchen. In short, i think he is so unhealthy the virus can no longer do the damage it can to a bloke less unhealthy.



To know that for certain, I need to run assays testing a dozen or more chemical levels in their blood.



As I said earlier, having read that paper, if this really is how this sodding virus gets in, then yes we really are talking dice rolls that can go either way.



It's a nasty mix of a lot of different things, and it's a lot like allergic reactions.

[Scott777]

It isn't that perfect, some people exhibit no symptoms at all.



I have a friend who is probably 28 stone, has diabetes, lost all feeling in his hands and feet due to his diabetes and very poor diet. He refuses to eat any veg at all and drinks copious amounts of pop. 3 year ago he had a triple heart bypass and was admitted to hospital for the 4th time this year, this time with CVD-19. He was put on oxygen and is making a full recovery, work that one out!!

There are so many factors.  Sunlight is the main source of vitamin D, so maybe he was a sun worshipper!

[Nick]

Why indeed. I wasted eight years of my life (2 years a levels, 3 years degree, 3 years research) thinking i would be looking into these very questions.



The questions are as old as the hills, for way back before penicillin existed. the inflammatory response to freund's adjuvant was well known.



But reading the article with my now very tatty and very, very grubby lab coat on, I stopped in horror when i read the first paragraph



This bastard locks on to the angiotensin-converting enzyme receptor in your cell membrane and uses it to climb in to the cell.



Oh f**k



Now I understand how it works.  



Oh god.



ACE2 is the master control program for blood pressure.



Go read this



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotens ... g_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2



This thing is the perfect nanobot to cause nuclear meltdown in your key organs



No wonder there's nothing they can do for you except hope.

It isn't that perfect, some people exhibit no symptoms at all.



I have a friend who is probably 28 stone, has diabetes, lost all feeling in his hands and feet due to his diabetes and very poor diet. He refuses to eat any veg at all and drinks copious amounts of pop. 3 year ago he had a triple heart bypass and was admitted to hospital for the 4th time this year, this time with CVD-19. He was put on oxygen and is making a full recovery, work that one out!!

[Scott777]

Why indeed. I wasted eight years of my life (2 years a levels, 3 years degree, 3 years research) thinking i would be looking into these very questions.



The questions are as old as the hills, for way back before penicillin existed. the inflammatory response to freund's adjuvant was well known.



But reading the article with my now very tatty and very, very grubby lab coat on, I stopped in horror when i read the first paragraph



This bastard locks on to the angiotensin-converting enzyme receptor in your cell membrane and uses it to climb in to the cell.



Oh f**k



Now I understand how it works.  



Oh god.



ACE2 is the master control program for blood pressure.



Go read this



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotens ... g_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2



This thing is the perfect nanobot to cause nuclear meltdown in your key organs



No wonder there's nothing they can do for you except hope.

A somewhat worrying post, which I hope you can clarify.  Can you summarise the Wiki bits that matter, and/or explain the nanobots?

[johnofgwent]

This is what I mean when I say CV19 is a trigger, but your immune system is the killer.  



The critical question is: why are some immune systems doing this, and not others?

Why indeed. I wasted eight years of my life (2 years a levels, 3 years degree, 3 years research) thinking i would be looking into these very questions.



The questions are as old as the hills, for way back before penicillin existed. the inflammatory response to freund's adjuvant was well known.



But reading the article with my now very tatty and very, very grubby lab coat on, I stopped in horror when i read the first paragraph



This bastard locks on to the angiotensin-converting enzyme receptor in your cell membrane and uses it to climb in to the cell.



Oh F@@@



Now I understand how it works.  



Oh god.



ACE2 is the master control program for blood pressure.



Go read this



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotens ... g_enzyme_2">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2



This thing is the perfect nanobot to cause nuclear meltdown in your key organs



No wonder there's nothing they can do for you except hope.

[Scott777]

And this scientific evidence supports this idea: