Adversity strengthens

[Borg Refinery]

And the answer is probably none whatsoever. But it keeps people amused, particularly those who think they are cleverer than God, when God has already made life's rules and moralities well and truly clear.

Including strength in adversity. (Romans 5 v3.)

Seeing as really great philosophers like Blaise Pascal devoted their whole lives to God, and would never dare to think such a thing, I don't see how you can say this. In a lot of ways, he points to the perfection of God and points to the multitudes of fallibilities in men and their flawed systems, and his own flaws too. But even non-Christian philosophers (good ones anyway) tend to point to their own heavily flawed nature. What's Socrates' most famous quote again...



Edit (2nd):



As well as that Socrates quote, have this one;



"To make light of philosophy is to be a true philosopher" - B Pascal



Well done Barry & Papa.

[Javert]

Well on this theme, weirdly, instead of biased BBC news and so on, here's a completely different BBC audio documentary.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08bq9sz">https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08bq9sz



I was listening to this on my walk today and it reminded me of the comments in this thread somewhat.



This was a moving story partly because I was very slightly involved with it on the very far periphery, and I have met Mat, who is the main person interviewed here, I have been involved with the community who plays this game for many years, and I'm a moderator on the forums for the company that makes the game.



This is a true story that destroys a few stereotypes.



For example, if you think that video games are just for teenage male nerds and are just frivolous fun, or if you think that those who play them are often trolls who don't show any compassion or organisation, or if you think that strangers from older and younger generations can't have meaningful and moving conversations with each other, or if you think that all games are violent, this might open your eyes somewhat.



This also seems a little timely as it involves serious illness, trauma, quarantine, the loving actions of a caring community, and death.  The people involved in this story demonstrated strength in adversity.



This is just one of many similar stories.

[Borchester]

This is true, but the point of the story is not free will but that adversity strengthens.

Only if you are the gardener Toots. The plant just gets bullied.

[T00ts]

Could be.



The plant is anything or anybody whose lifestyle is changed by any religion, political or religious or whatever system. The point is that the plant is rarely asked if it wants to change.

This is true, but the point of the story is not free will but that adversity strengthens.

[papasmurf]

And the answer is probably none whatsoever.

I came to a similar conclusion decades ago.

[Barry]

It is that kind of esoteric, ethereal comment that makes me ask what practical use is philosophy.

And the answer is probably none whatsoever. But it keeps people amused, particularly those who think they are cleverer than God, when God has already made life's rules and moralities well and truly clear.

Including strength in adversity. (Romans 5 v3.)

[papasmurf]

Off topic for this thread - but I would happily discuss this in another.

No thanks, your language use to too esoteric for me.

[Borchester]

So I'll try again to get the takeaway from this metaphor - are humans the olive tree / grape vines in this story? Is "god" the gardener?

Could be.



The plant is anything or anybody whose lifestyle is changed by any religion, political or religious or whatever system. The point is that the plant is rarely asked if it wants to change.

[Nalaar]

It is that kind of esoteric, ethereal comment that makes me ask what practical use is philosophy.

Off topic for this thread - but I would happily discuss this in another.

[T00ts]

No Toots. It is better for the gardener but what does the vine get out of it?

Do you really need to ask? Haven't you learned anything from what I tell you?   :roll:  The vine becomes stronger, the vine gives better fruit, the vine stands before the gardener on judgement/market day and is judged on his fruit/labours and lives for ever without disease or any of the trials of life. If the vine had been left to live without tests or constraints it would have possibly withered, given bad fruit and been worthless. Perhaps some vines would manage to survive and live well without any pruning or feeding, but any gardener would know that a really good vine is worth training and helping to be even better.    You are obviously an excellent gardener.

[papasmurf]

So I'll try again to get the takeaway from this metaphor - are humans the olive tree / grape vines in this story? Is "god" the gardener?

It is that kind of esoteric, ethereal comment that makes me ask what practical use is philosophy.

[Nalaar]

Then back to the original point.



Yesterday I pruned a mate's grape vine. The vine did not want to be pruned and was ticking over quite happily without it. And if it could feel pain it would have been seriously pissed off, because I cut off a couple of cordons and a pile of canes. And then I added a 5% solution of piddle and water, which is good for fruit production but something that the vine might have found a bit insulting.



So I got a pat on the back and in a few months my mate will get a bumper crop of grapes. The vine will just get a lot of inconvenience but no one is asking its opinion. Bit like God.

So I'll try again to get the takeaway from this metaphor - are humans the olive tree / grape vines in this story? Is "god" the gardener?

[Borchester]

Exactly - you could see how the past had affected it and knew that it's future could be brighter. Well done!   :clp  :clp

No Toots. It is better for the gardener but what does the vine get out of it?

[T00ts]

Then back to the original point.



Yesterday I pruned a mate's grape vine. The vine did not want to be pruned and was ticking over quite happily without it. And if it could feel pain it would have been seriously pissed off, because I cut off a couple of cordons and a pile of canes. And then I added a 5% solution of piddle and water, which is good for fruit production but something that the vine might have found a bit insulting.



So I got a pat on the back and in a few months my mate will get a bumper crop of grapes. The vine will just get a lot of inconvenience but no one is asking its opinion. Bit like God.

Exactly - you could see how the past had affected it and knew that it's future could be brighter. Well done!   :clp  :clp

[Borchester]

We seem to be at cross purposes. Perhaps it is better left.

Then back to the original point.



Yesterday I pruned a mate's grape vine. The vine did not want to be pruned and was ticking over quite happily without it. And if it could feel pain it would have been seriously pissed off, because I cut off a couple of cordons and a pile of canes. And then I added a 5% solution of piddle and water, which is good for fruit production but something that the vine might have found a bit insulting.



So I got a pat on the back and in a few months my mate will get a bumper crop of grapes. The vine will just get a lot of inconvenience but no one is asking its opinion. Bit like God.