Critical Race Theory

[Sheepy]

The govt seems to have outlawed discussion of critical race theory in schools, but it hasn't muzzled UK studies of the basic initial questions that legal scholars raised some four decades ago.

The studies in the US initially attempt to understand why black communities experienced discrimination in the criminal justice system, even though they were formally guaranteed equal rights. The UK also began formally compiling data and studying statistics that appeared to show similar discrepancies around 20 years ago.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/criminal-justice-statistics
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-racial-disparity-in-the-criminal-justice-system-2020

These have been studied by other organisations:
https://irr.org.uk/research/statistics/criminal-justice/
https://www.bteg.co.uk/content/equal%E2%80%99s-response-mojs-%E2%80%98tackling-racial-disparity-criminal-justice-system-2020-update%E2%80%99

But even the Ministry of Justice (MOJ update) states it will take time to see evidence of a reduction in racial disparities across the criminal justice system. So there's still plenty to do...

That said there is a huge difference between BLM in the US and the UK, in the UK they acted peacefully eventually and got legal status, in the US they took the anarchist route and will eventually receive just rewards by the old white dudes.

[patman post]

The govt seems to have outlawed discussion of critical race theory in schools, but it hasn't muzzled UK studies of the basic initial questions that legal scholars raised some four decades ago.

The studies in the US initially attempt to understand why black communities experienced discrimination in the criminal justice system, even though they were formally guaranteed equal rights. The UK also began formally compiling data and studying statistics that appeared to show similar discrepancies around 20 years ago.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/criminal-justice-statistics
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-racial-disparity-in-the-criminal-justice-system-2020

These have been studied by other organisations:
https://irr.org.uk/research/statistics/criminal-justice/
https://www.bteg.co.uk/content/equal%E2%80%99s-response-mojs-%E2%80%98tackling-racial-disparity-criminal-justice-system-2020-update%E2%80%99

But even the Ministry of Justice (MOJ update) states it will take time to see evidence of a reduction in racial disparities across the criminal justice system. So there's still plenty to do...

[Nick]

you just have...

You beat me to it.

[cromwell]

Mod Notice
@Deppity Dawg disagree by all means but please don't deliberately avoid the swear filter so many times and hope to get away with it
Post removed

[Sheepy]

I actually am not convinced that the purpose of all these things is to create guilt or put personal responsibility on all individual people.

To me it seems like it should be possible to acknowledge the reality of several centuries of white supremacist activity across many countries, and the continuing inequalities that we have even today resulting from that.  It's a matter of historical fact that these things happened and that whole empires and countries were run by people who truly believed that people with white skin are innately superior to people with other colours of skin, and who happened, partly through the lottery of historical luck, to have much better weapons at the beginning of those contacts.

Things have definitely improved in some of those countries and progress has been made, but we are very far from being able to say that we live in a true meritocracy (although there is a whole separate debate around whether meritocracy is even a good thing given that it automatically implies that some people are of less merit).

This does not mean that each individual person who defined themselves as white is individually responsible or should feel guilty about something they have not done.  However there is an inertia in societies that tends to entrench inequalities of all kinds unless it is openly addressed and acknowledged, even where each individual person has generous intentions and ideas.

I also don't think that pointing out these kind of inequalities is to the exclusion of other inequalities based on economic background (what many call class), so I'm yet to be convinced that trying to point out ethnic based biases means that other biases would be ignored or deliberately made worse.

Personally, I don't think all this woke business is woke at all. It all sounds like somebody repeating someone else who is obviously smarter than they are. It doesn't mean the repeater is smart or even woke it just makes them a parrot thinking it makes them intelligent. The original theory could well be dreamed up while dropping acid for the CIA.

[T00ts]

I actually am not convinced that the purpose of all these things is to create guilt or put personal responsibility on all individual people.

To me it seems like it should be possible to acknowledge the reality of several centuries of white supremacist activity across many countries, and the continuing inequalities that we have even today resulting from that.  It's a matter of historical fact that these things happened and that whole empires and countries were run by people who truly believed that people with white skin are innately superior to people with other colours of skin, and who happened, partly through the lottery of historical luck, to have much better weapons at the beginning of those contacts.

Things have definitely improved in some of those countries and progress has been made, but we are very far from being able to say that we live in a true meritocracy (although there is a whole separate debate around whether meritocracy is even a good thing given that it automatically implies that some people are of less merit).

This does not mean that each individual person who defined themselves as white is individually responsible or should feel guilty about something they have not done.  However there is an inertia in societies that tends to entrench inequalities of all kinds unless it is openly addressed and acknowledged, even where each individual person has generous intentions and ideas.

I also don't think that pointing out these kind of inequalities is to the exclusion of other inequalities based on economic background (what many call class), so I'm yet to be convinced that trying to point out ethnic based biases means that other biases would be ignored or deliberately made worse.

I think I can understand your sentiment and it is certain that there are injustices even against the so called privileged, my concern is how these ideas not only thrive but overrun common sense to the point that society as a whole is damaged.

[Javert]

The labels gaining so much strength are 'white privelege' and with it 'unconscious racism'. Both are designed to impart guilt to all based only on race and colour. The outcome for innocent people could be horrific.

I actually am not convinced that the purpose of all these things is to create guilt or put personal responsibility on all individual people.

To me it seems like it should be possible to acknowledge the reality of several centuries of white supremacist activity across many countries, and the continuing inequalities that we have even today resulting from that.  It's a matter of historical fact that these things happened and that whole empires and countries were run by people who truly believed that people with white skin are innately superior to people with other colours of skin, and who happened, partly through the lottery of historical luck, to have much better weapons at the beginning of those contacts.

Things have definitely improved in some of those countries and progress has been made, but we are very far from being able to say that we live in a true meritocracy (although there is a whole separate debate around whether meritocracy is even a good thing given that it automatically implies that some people are of less merit).

This does not mean that each individual person who defined themselves as white is individually responsible or should feel guilty about something they have not done.  However there is an inertia in societies that tends to entrench inequalities of all kinds unless it is openly addressed and acknowledged, even where each individual person has generous intentions and ideas.

I also don't think that pointing out these kind of inequalities is to the exclusion of other inequalities based on economic background (what many call class), so I'm yet to be convinced that trying to point out ethnic based biases means that other biases would be ignored or deliberately made worse.

[T00ts]

It's been scientifically proven that ladies look even more beautiful after 8 pints 

Oh dear there's no hope at all! I guess we look even better through the bottom of the glass too! There is a plus of course and that is that we are possibly safer after said 8 pints.

[DeppityDawg]

The only let down in that comment is that the beer came first!   

It's been scientifically proven that ladies look even more beautiful after 8 pints 

[T00ts]

Well, I'm not exactly a gentleman, but of the finer things worth appreciating in life, there are none so great as a good beer and a pair of exquisite legs on a lass 

The only let down in that comment is that the beer came first! 

[DeppityDawg]

Hang on - what are you suggesting about my legs? I will tell you that they are nicely turned and elegantly finished ............   and definitely covered!       

Well, I'm not exactly a gentleman, but of the finer things worth appreciating in life, there are none so great as a good beer and a pair of exquisite legs on a lass 

[T00ts]

True. Dribble dribble, slobber. What this board really needs is a disgusting old man icon 

Heaven forfend!   

[Borchester]

Well, you better keep those legs covered around Borchester, Toots!!!. He may be getting on, but the frisky auld coot isn't quite over the hill yet     

True. Dribble dribble, slobber. What this board really needs is a disgusting old man icon 

[T00ts]

Well, you better keep those legs covered around Borchester, Toots!!!. He may be getting on, but the frisky auld coot isn't quite over the hill yet     

Hang on - what are you suggesting about my legs? I will tell you that they are nicely turned and elegantly finished ............   and definitely covered!   

[papasmurf]

In the 60s and 70s there were a mass of studies on the lifestyle of the white working class. They were invariably well meaning, patronising and had very little contact with reality. But my wife helped produce a few and the money helped us over a lean period when the children were small.

What worries me is the musings about the white working class by some sinecured ethereal prat who has has never had any contact with the white working class are used to make doctrine based government policy.