Struggling to vote

[Churchill]

Small Gin Distilleries are on the increase run from back garden sheds by people with little or no background in distilling, home brewing of beers and wines is still going strong.

[papasmurf]

So if micro breweries are so hard to set up, why is there an explosion if them?

You need to check on who is setting up micro breweries. They often come from a brewing background and have expertise to start with.

[T00ts]

I think I have made my mind up. It will be to vote tactically to keep out the Marxist terrorist apologist who wants to bankrupt the country.



As I said in the OP, I still don't trust the Tories (Boris in particular) and have no confidence whatsoever that they will "get Brexit done" by leaving on 31st January.

Ok! Better that than staying home. All our voices need to be heard. I would imagine that the most frightening thing that Politicians would hear is a very very high turnout.

[Barry]

I think I have made my mind up. It will be to vote tactically to keep out the Marxist terrorist apologist who wants to bankrupt the country.



As I said in the OP, I still don't trust the Tories (Boris in particular) and have no confidence whatsoever that they will "get Brexit done" by leaving on 31st January.

[papasmurf]

Again, I'm not talking about brexit, I'm talking about the bloody astronomic expense today of setting up a business that in my dad's or grandad's day would have been a doddle,

When I set up a business in 1970 all I did was fill out a government form. (If memory serves it cost a whole £5.)

[johnofgwent]

So if micro breweries are so hard to set up, why is there an explosion if them?  There is a very good one near me which is literally set up in the garage of an end of terrace house. My father ran a "micro brewery" (it actually brewed cider so not quite the same thing) when I was younger out of our garage.  He still brews up a bit for personal consumption as a hobby. This autumn I helped pick and press apples and pears which were pressed in the local village co-op and sold locally as juices.  No major red tape beyond basic health and safety stuff.



As for chemical works - I cans say i've been involved in that much, but the chemical industry (a big UK exporter) is very worried about the problems of getting valid REACH registration.



My friends father runs a light engineering works (well agricultural engineers) and like a farmers he moans about paper work.  The thing is the majority is the tax and accounting (not really going to see less of that are we) and the usual "elf and safety gone mad" winging.  Are you hoping to cut back on H&S legislation?  Overall he is really worried about brexit as it's going to make getting his parts (currently can be got very simply from a variety of suppliers across Europe) and selling his finished products (ships across the EU) much more complex.



If brexit is going to cut red tape, they won't need as many civil servants to process and admitted it.  So why are they hiring civil servants like crazy?

Again, I'm not talking about brexit, I'm talking about the bloody astronomic expense today of setting up a business that in my dad's or grandad's day would have been a doddle, and the red tape is entirely of our own making, albeit helped along by civil servants who are more than eager to take one sheet of a4 handed to them by brussels and make it 64. And it's entirely down to a mentality expressed wonderfully in the woefully inept regulatory impact assessment gordon brown;s mob at the treasure threw out for his welfare reform bills, which are summarised as "throw the bills at business, the high earners can use lawyers to avoid it, and the small business can be taxed to death and left for dead in the gutter, we don't need them anyway."



it's an attitude that has become ever more prevalent in all aspects pf government since then

[BeElBeeBub]

For once, I'm NOT talking about brexit.



Have you any idea what it takes to set up a micro brewery, a chemical processing plant or a light engineering facility.



In my fathers generation, bright young men could do this on a bloody shoestring.



Even at the start of my career such things werexstill possible without the help of a banker.



Not today



....

So if micro breweries are so hard to set up, why is there an explosion if them?  There is a very good one near me which is literally set up in the garage of an end of terrace house. My father ran a "micro brewery" (it actually brewed cider so not quite the same thing) when I was younger out of our garage.  He still brews up a bit for personal consumption as a hobby. This autumn I helped pick and press apples and pears which were pressed in the local village co-op and sold locally as juices.  No major red tape beyond basic health and safety stuff.



As for chemical works - I cans say i've been involved in that much, but the chemical industry (a big UK exporter) is very worried about the problems of getting valid REACH registration.



My friends father runs a light engineering works (well agricultural engineers) and like a farmers he moans about paper work.  The thing is the majority is the tax and accounting (not really going to see less of that are we) and the usual "elf and safety gone mad" winging.  Are you hoping to cut back on H&S legislation?  Overall he is really worried about brexit as it's going to make getting his parts (currently can be got very simply from a variety of suppliers across Europe) and selling his finished products (ships across the EU) much more complex.



If brexit is going to cut red tape, they won't need as many civil servants to process and admitted it.  So why are they hiring civil servants like crazy?

[johnofgwent]

so what is this stifling red tape?



Quite the reverse. the ability for young startups to immediately access a massive market is a huge bonus.



If it's such a drag why are the majority of businesses with the small exception of a few huge well established players (JCB, Dyson etc) all against Brexit?  Why do they all say Brexit will provide more red tape not less?

For once, I'm NOT talking about brexit.



Have you any idea what it takes to set up a micro brewery, a chemical processing plant or a light engineering facility.



In my fathers generation, bright young men could do this on a bloody shoestring.



Even at the start of my career such things werexstill possible without the help of a banker.



Not today



....

[Churchill]

:thup:  ::

[Sheepy]

The local Labour canvassers knocked my door yesterday,they haven't been near for years,they were explaining it is either them or the Tory's,so they asked could they rely on my vote,I said,can I rely on you to carry through democracy,they said of course,I laughed and said well where were you in the last 3 and a half years then.

[BeElBeeBub]

No it won't.



BUT the thing about back then was people with an idea and a bit of drive were able to put it into action. We were a nation of inventors, of ideas men (and women). Arguably one of the biggest problems that many of our people of ideas had was getting the ideas translated into things, but the whole atmosphere then was different to the stifling overburdening red tape and bullshit and hoops we have to jump through.



To succeed, we have to find a way to bring THAT back. Screw Nostalgia, it's not what it's cracked up to be.

so what is this stifling red tape?



Quite the reverse. the ability for young startups to immediately access a massive market is a huge bonus.



If it's such a drag why are the majority of businesses with the small exception of a few huge well established players (JCB, Dyson etc) all against Brexit?  Why do they all say Brexit will provide more red tape not less?

[Baron von Lotsov]

No it won't.



BUT the thing about back then was people with an idea and a bit of drive were able to put it into action. We were a nation of inventors, of ideas men (and women). Arguably one of the biggest problems that many of our people of ideas had was getting the ideas translated into things, but the whole atmosphere then was different to the stifling overburdening red tape and bullshit and hoops we have to jump through.



To succeed, we have to find a way to bring THAT back. Screw Nostalgia, it's not what it's cracked up to be.

I suppose you have to support each other, so if one chap down the road is being cheated by the tax collectors then other business people help them out. You've got to say to them, pick on one and you pick on all of us. They try so hard to separate us out into situations where it is one man vs a whole hierarchy of pros the businessmen pay the wages of to do their best to cheat them. It does not matter which department, and of course there are many of them. I understand employment tribunals are a real scary one if you own a business. You can't just be free to take someone on to see how it works, so often a potential vacancy which could be filled and could help the company take more orders is rather not filled unless they are certain they have the right person from the word go. The point is that as a manager of the firm and owner, you have to keep your eye on the product, so all distraction from serving the customer is going to get in the way. It's like wearing many different hats. The council are another one that can shut you down. Today is like the business equivalent of Vietnam. Whatever you do a state sniper could be waiting for you in the bushes.

[papasmurf]

He's WRITING to you ? Christ your broadband must be dire ....

No he wrote to my wife, I suspect in desperation, the Tory majority here is only 311, and the Libdem candidate who used to be the MP never voted for any of the austerity measures when the LibDems were in the coalition.

There is also something very odd going on locally, "for safety reasons," the police have advised Tory candidates not to attend any public meetings.

It also appears the Tories are not canvassing either.

(I have thought from the start of the campaign canvassing for the Tories locally  would be a risky business due to the sheer numbers having to resort to food banks, and the numbers locally badly damaged by austerity. Plus the hostile environment from the DWP/DWP contractors/JobCentre Plus.)

It would be bloody dangerous for  Tory canvassers to knock some of the doors in my area.

I now have a proper manufactured warning notice screwed to the wall by my front door discouraging ALL callers.

[johnofgwent]

My wife has just had a letter from Boris Johnson, (not a joke,) what she said when she read it is NOT for repeating on an internet forum.

My wife is one of the Waspi women  and if she ever got anywhere near Boris she would be up on a murder charge.

He's WRITING to you ? Christ your broadband must be dire ....



He emailed me a day or two back asking me to divvy up a fiver for his campaign fund.  It;s a damn shame the email box is locked for replies, and not for the first time I mourn the passing of Compuserve, where it cost real money to send AND receive email, and people who blocked receiving were not allowed to send ...

[johnofgwent]

good lord! The media spinning a moral panic narrative out it half truths and lies......thank god such a thing could never happen today.....





Times were different. There was an acute labour shortage.  Manufacturing and construction still required a lot of low and semi skilled labour. Ideal conditions for someone to walk out of school at 16 into a reasonable factory job.  Add to the fact houses were relatively cheap and the baby boom was starting to provide a large labour to dependent ratio and it was a period of rapid increases in living standards.



Of course now, we live in a different world. Despite making more than we ever did, manufacturing employs fewer people often at higher skill levels.  The low skill jobs (Amazon packing, delivery driving, shelf stacking) don't pay as well and the worker/dependent ratio is falling as the baby boomers age out of the labour force and the falling birth rate bites.



Nostalgia for the past won't help us face the challenges of the future.

No it won't.



BUT the thing about back then was people with an idea and a bit of drive were able to put it into action. We were a nation of inventors, of ideas men (and women). Arguably one of the biggest problems that many of our people of ideas had was getting the ideas translated into things, but the whole atmosphere then was different to the stifling overburdening red tape and bullshit and hoops we have to jump through.



To succeed, we have to find a way to bring THAT back. Screw Nostalgia, it's not what it's cracked up to be.