Abortion

[johnofgwent]

I meant what the law was John, not necessarily 13 weeks. Perhaps my choice of words could be incentive given your story, and I can appreciate that on the eleventh hour someone could change their mind so sure I agree that line of thinking deserves a kicking. But depending on the narrative you want to say your story could actually make my argument for me. It seems you daughter decided to keep her child. Can you imagine what she could have lost and not understood what she had lost had she decided the other way. And not only that, what will the child's attitude be to abortions knowing they could have been terminated. I am not advocating against abortions in any case as it seems there are reasons to have an abortion even if its down to health. All US states that had a trigger law also allow abortion when there is a threat to live. And of course stillborn are dead so they won't have the right to life. But even so, abortions are not the only option a mother has if she decides they don't want that child. And they are also final and cannot be reversed. Are you aware of post abortion grief? They can also make a women infertile. So I guess all I am saying is that abortions even under some of the circumstances people think they are acceptable needs a time-limit even if its the second trimester if anything because if you go as late as 28 weeks, you are talking about killing a viable fetus.

Well yes, the welsh wil be delighted, when they declare independence, to find the rightful heir to the throne of hywel dda is a mongrel half islamic....#

yes I'm fully aware of post abortion grief. I saw it in action with Emma. Thats the daughter without the working lungs, now in bits in glass jars in my old lab. But at least the University Hospital of Wales asked my permission to use the corpse, parents of alder hey childrens hospital never got the choce.

The point i was making is your comment suggested you are in the "of course these women are thinking straight" camp. Many are not.

and as per this https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/02/texas-abortion-law-roe-wade/ black rapists in texas will be delighted to see they can follow the generally accepted principle of colonisation by birth

For the record, It took another rape of a an eight and a half month pregnant complete stranger by a cokehead, the murder of that stranger by the same cokehead, and the deliberate cutting out and slashing into bits of the unborn child and the burning of the bodies in the rooms directly above my grand daughter to "bond" her to me. But now she is. But i still have a few people i really need to kill.

[srb7677]

When you get the climate change people talking about sharon stopping using the four by four to drop the weans at school , they often miss out the elephant in the room that is human overpopulation.

I have made this point myself before. Even if every human on the planet halved his and her carbon footprint, it would make feck all difference if our population doubled.

As a species, even if we each had only one eighth of the carbon footprint of the average human a century ago it would make feck all difference because there are 8 times as many of us.

Population growth is the biggest driver of climate change.

So I've done more for the planet by not having any kids than most of the electric car driving salad eaters.

[Thomas]

Thats a big jump cromwell between the right to life and the right to bear arms .  At the other end of that idea is mass steralisation , dont have any kids at all ,no need for any schools so the nutters dont have any kids to shoot at .

Blimey  we have solved it ,America will be great again ! 

Its a fair point though streetwalker , the fact a so called world leading first world nation is potentially allowing the banning of abortion before AK 47s is a laughable joke.

[Thomas]

In recent hours major companies are saying they will cover the costs for out of state abortions . Some have replied that they are only doing so as its cheaper to employ people without families .

The mad house just got a little madder

i would argue surely the people these companies want working for them is those with responsibilities and families , who are more likely to turn up for work , do overtime and work hard to pay their bills?

The ones without families and less responsibilities possibly are more likely to take sickies and be less hard working?

It is a fackin madhouse mate.

While linking abortion with work , the whole issue could also go into the wider discussion about human overpopulation  , and how we have went from 1 billion people to 8 billion in a century.

Humanity cant keep exponentially growing as it has done. We are using more land , eating more food and using more resources while vastly damaging the planet as we all know. When you get the climate change people talking about sharon stopping using the four by four to drop the weans at school , they often miss out the elephant in the room that is human overpopulation.

Thats just a number of issues where the abortion argument could take us.

I firmly beleive abortion should be a human right for every female on this earth. The united states ,as they so often do on guns and healthcare and many other issues , embarressing itself once again.

[cromwell]

Thats a big jump cromwell between the right to life and the right to bear arms .  At the other end of that idea is mass steralisation , dont have any kids at all ,no need for any schools so the nutters dont have any kids to shoot at .

Blimey  we have solved it ,America will be great again ! 

Nope no jump at all ,I made no reference to sterilisation.
I was pointing out the joke that is denying women a right of choice on the basis of a right to life and then defending the right to bear arms that denies so many people in the US of their right to live.

[Streetwalker]

Madhouse indeed,unlawful to have an abortion but under the constitution lawful to bear arms.

Great so make sure they're born so some nutter can buy an assault rifle go to their school and kill them,makes sense doesn't it?

Thats a big jump cromwell between the right to life and the right to bear arms .  At the other end of that idea is mass steralisation , dont have any kids at all ,no need for any schools so the nutters dont have any kids to shoot at .

Blimey  we have solved it ,America will be great again !   

[cromwell]

In recent hours major companies are saying they will cover the costs for out of state abortions . Some have replied that they are only doing so as its cheaper to employ people without families .

The mad house just got a little madder

Madhouse indeed,unlawful to have an abortion but under the constitution lawful to bear arms.

Great so make sure they're born so some nutter can buy an assault rifle go to their school and kill them,makes sense doesn't it?

[Streetwalker]

That is true but if it is treated as an individual State matter then it is up to the voters to lobby their elected. Much as I agree it is a backward step for women and they should have their freedom over their own body, has the American Constitution simply been returned to it's original form? Rather like devolved situations here. I can see Boysey's point. Having said all that it must be more than worrying for those women living it States where no abortions allowed whatever the circumstances. Hopefully anyone caught in this predicament can go out of State to get the necessary treatment. My concern is those who lack the wherewithal to do that.

In recent hours major companies are saying they will cover the costs for out of state abortions . Some have replied that they are only doing so as its cheaper to employ people without families .

The mad house just got a little madder 

[srb7677]

I meant what the law was John, not necessarily 13 weeks. Perhaps my choice of words could be incentive given your story, and I can appreciate that on the eleventh hour someone could change their mind so sure I agree that line of thinking deserves a kicking. But depending on the narrative you want to say your story could actually make my argument for me. It seems you daughter decided to keep her child. Can you imagine what she could have lost and not understood what she had lost had she decided the other way. And not only that, what will the child's attitude be to abortions knowing they could have been terminated. I am not advocating against abortions in any case as it seems there are reasons to have an abortion even if its down to health. All US states that had a trigger law also allow abortion when there is a threat to live. And of course stillborn are dead so they won't have the right to life. But even so, abortions are not the only option a mother has if she decides they don't want that child. And they are also final and cannot be reversed. Are you aware of post abortion grief? They can also make a women infertile. So I guess all I am saying is that abortions even under some of the circumstances people think they are acceptable needs a time-limit even if its the second trimester if anything because if you go as late as 28 weeks, you are talking about killing a viable fetus.

For me I think the viable point at which a foetus can survive as a baby outside the womb is the ideal cut off point for legal abortions, whatever point that may be. But if the foetus is so badly deformed that it cannot possibly survive independently or if the baby dies in the womb there would be no point in making the woman go all the way to birth, however late this is discoverred.

[B0ycey]

Well your exact words were "if you are raped and can't be arsed to do anything about it for 13 weeks"

This seems to suggest you think rape victims act and think rationally.

I have two specific instances across two generations (apart from my daughter, my first "serious" girlfriend was raped by one of the hospital staff where she was an in patient at 17) that show me rape victims don't seem to act rationally after the event.

It was that specific aspect of your thinking that I feel needs a bit of a kicking.

And my experiences show me the official attitude has changed not one f**king iota over forty years ....

I meant what the law was John, not necessarily 13 weeks. Perhaps my choice of words could be incentive given your story, and I can appreciate that on the eleventh hour someone could change their mind so sure I agree that line of thinking deserves a kicking. But depending on the narrative you want to say your story could actually make my argument for me. It seems you daughter decided to keep her child. Can you imagine what she could have lost and not understood what she had lost had she decided the other way. And not only that, what will the child's attitude be to abortions knowing they could have been terminated. I am not advocating against abortions in any case as it seems there are reasons to have an abortion even if its down to health. All US states that had a trigger law also allow abortion when there is a threat to live. And of course stillborn are dead so they won't have the right to life. But even so, abortions are not the only option a mother has if she decides they don't want that child. And they are also final and cannot be reversed. Are you aware of post abortion grief? They can also make a women infertile. So I guess all I am saying is that abortions even under some of the circumstances people think they are acceptable needs a time-limit even if its the second trimester if anything because if you go as late as 28 weeks, you are talking about killing a viable fetus.

[johnofgwent]

I am not going to argue with you on an emotional subject that you are invested in on something as subjective as abortions John, if anything out of respect to you. But I will say that abortions are not the only option a mother has even if she decides that she doesn't want to look after the baby for whatever reason and that ALL options a mother has should be solely down to the law that is in place and not dictated by emotion.

Well your exact words were "if you are raped and can't be arsed to do anything about it for 13 weeks"

This seems to suggest you think rape victims act and think rationally.

I have two specific instances across two generations (apart from my daughter, my first "serious" girlfriend was raped by one of the hospital staff where she was an in patient at 17) that show me rape victims don't seem to act rationally after the event.

It was that specific aspect of your thinking that I feel needs a bit of a kicking.

And my experiences show me the official attitude has changed not one fucking iota over forty years ....

[Thomas]

Fair play for @Thomas to quote Obama. Don't know why, but I didn't see him as a Democrat. But in any case I do wonder when the founding fathers wrote about liberty, property, due process and freedom, what they really meant was abortions and not equality and the pursuit of happiness and opportunity. I shouldn't mock of course. The Right also have their own interpretation of well regulated militia, so we shouldn't be surprised if the Left do the same with Liberty.

Im not obamas biggest fan , indeed im not that great a fan of american politicians in general , but it was interesting to read what he was saying on the matter for people like me. Im not clued up that well on american democracy and rights , and how thier constitution works , but i do believe abortion should be an automatic human right for all woman everywhere. As i said to toots , it will be interesting to see how this develops , but i frimly believe america is looking backward ( as i do with their gun laws and death penalty) once again.

[Thomas]

Having said all that it must be more than worrying for those women living it States where no abortions allowed whatever the circumstances. Hopefully anyone caught in this predicament can go out of State to get the necessary treatment. My concern is those who lack the wherewithal to do that.

exactly that. potentially allowing outlawing abortion in certain states as we all know doesnt make it go away , it merely makes it more difficult for the poor and marginalised.

It will be interesting to see the fall out from this judgement.

[B0ycey]

Fair play for @Thomas to quote Obama. Don't know why, but I didn't see him as a Democrat. But in any case I do wonder when the founding fathers wrote about liberty, property, due process and freedom, what they really meant was abortions and not equality and the pursuit of happiness and opportunity. I shouldn't mock of course. The Right also have their own interpretation of well regulated militia, so we shouldn't be surprised if the Left do the same with Liberty.

[T00ts]

It has potentially curtailed the freedoms of millions of american women. The guvenor of california has been right out the blocks saying abortion will never be ilegal in his state , and american politicians have rightly criticised the judegment.




@BarackObama


Today, the Supreme Court not only reversed nearly 50 years of precedent, it relegated the most intensely personal decision someone can make to the whims of politicians and ideologues—attacking the essential freedoms of millions of Americans.



like we said , america looking extremely backward and foolish once again , for the so called leader of the so called free western world. Thank god scotland and england are above this so called barbarity and backwardness.

That is true but if it is treated as an individual State matter then it is up to the voters to lobby their elected. Much as I agree it is a backward step for women and they should have their freedom over their own body, has the American Constitution simply been returned to it's original form? Rather like devolved situations here. I can see Boysey's point. Having said all that it must be more than worrying for those women living it States where no abortions allowed whatever the circumstances. Hopefully anyone caught in this predicament can go out of State to get the necessary treatment. My concern is those who lack the wherewithal to do that.