Abortion

[Thomas]

Today, millions of Americans woke up fearing that their essential freedoms under the Constitution were at risk.

If the Supreme Court ultimately decides to overturn the landmark case of Roe v. Wade, then it will not only reverse nearly 50 years of precedent — it will relegate the most intensely personal decision someone can make to the whims of politicians and ideologues.

Few, if any, women make the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually — and people of goodwill, across the political spectrum, can hold different views on the subject. But what Roe recognized is that the freedom enshrined in the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution requires all of us to enjoy a sphere of our lives that isn't subject to meddling from the state — a sphere that includes personal decisions involving who we sleep with, who we marry, whether or not to use contraception, and whether or not to bear children.

As the court has previously determined, our freedoms are not unlimited — society has a compelling interest in other circumstances, for example, in protecting children from abuse or people from self-harm — and the framework constructed by Roe and subsequent Court decisions allowed legislatures to impose greater restrictions on abortion later in pregnancy. But this draft decision doesn't seek to balance these interests. Instead, it simply forces folks to give up any constitutionally recognized interest in what happens to their body once they get pregnant. Under the Court's logic, state legislatures could dictate that women carry every pregnancy to term, no matter how early it is and no matter what circumstances led to it — even rape or incest.

https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-with-michelle-on-the-draft-supreme-court-decision-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-94c0ae0c541a

[Thomas]

You didn't need to clarify as it was clear to me. But in regards of the judgement, it wasn't actually a judgement on abortions. It was on constitutional rights. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a pro choice advocate, there is no way the founding fathers gave women their abortion rights when they gave their well regulated militia their rights to bare arms. There simply is no mention of abortion in the bill of rights. I don't know how else they could have concluded any other way.

It has potentially curtailed the freedoms of millions of american women. The guvenor of california has been right out the blocks saying abortion will never be ilegal in his state , and american politicians have rightly criticised the judegment.




@BarackObama


Today, the Supreme Court not only reversed nearly 50 years of precedent, it relegated the most intensely personal decision someone can make to the whims of politicians and ideologues—attacking the essential freedoms of millions of Americans.



like we said , america looking extremely backward and foolish once again , for the so called leader of the so called free western world. Thank god scotland and england are above this so called barbarity and backwardness.

[B0ycey]

I did think you were , hence your defence of this judgement. I support abortion and womans right to choose  , if that needs clarifying.

You didn't need to clarify as it was clear to me. But in regards of the judgement, it wasn't actually a judgement on abortions. It was on constitutional rights. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a pro choice advocate, there is no way the founding fathers gave women their abortion rights when they gave their well regulated militia their rights to bare arms. There simply is no mention of abortion in the bill of rights. I don't know how else they could have concluded any other way.

[Thomas]

My view is I am against abortions Thomas. I think healthy babies should be given to families who can't have children. But there are clearly reasons to have an abortion and I guess it is better to have sensible laws than a total ban.

I did think you were , hence your defence of this judgement. I support abortion and womans right to choose  , if that needs clarifying.

[B0ycey]

Im not sure your own personal views , or if you are trying to hide them behind others countires judgements , but there is simply no polishing this turd in any way.

My view is I am against abortions Thomas. I think healthy babies should be given to families who can't have children. But there are clearly reasons to have an abortion and I guess it is better to have sensible laws than a total ban.

[Thomas]

Abortions are a culture thing in Ireland. Perhaps attitudes are changing but not really.

i think attitudes are indeed changing. Ask any irishman or woman and they will tell you how the cathlic church is now viewed in light of especially all the horror stories of abuse and neglect , along with burial grounds of young babies uncovered.

A wee irish lady from dublin i once knew told me when she was younger , it was common for the locals to go into the church as priests , and today , they were having to bus in catholic priests from eastern europe. Regarding abortion , if attitudes werent changing they wouldnt have legalised abortion in 2018.

I have never known and Irish person been pro abortions.

Eh? They had a referendum on it in 2018 , and 67 % voted in favour of legalising abortion ,some 1 half million voters.

The only reason anyone thinks America are the extremists on abortion rights is solely down to the fact they have made this issue a political football. If this argument was across party lines and the same judgement was made, we would not be hearing about it because abortions are a subjective topic.

its a regressive backward step compared to the so called civilised western world , and makes them a laughing stock , potentially being put in with  countires that are seen as beacons of progression like north korea.

Im not sure your own personal views , or if you are trying to hide them behind others countires judgements , but there is simply no polishing this turd in any way.

[B0ycey]

you mentioned gerry and insinuated about anti abortion attitudes in ireland. The older more religious are against them as they are anywhere similar in the world , while the younger  , more liberal and less religous are for them. Im simply pointing out when even the once backward extremely catholic ireland legalises abortion , you know the game is up for religous nutjobs. Yankland seems to have taken a backward step.
you can do better than that poor attempt at sophistry boycey. Its a regressive move allowing states to rule against them. My position is women should have the right to abortion free of all religous dogma in any country or state.
The world is polarised on many different subjects......this is the norm. What isnt the norm is taking away freedoms in a so called civilsed western democracy. yankland looking bad to the rest of us once again.

The abortion genie is out the bottle , and no matter what judge rules  on what , you can't put it back in.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/countries-abortion-legal-illegal-laws-rcna27505


If the law in the U.S. changes with a Supreme Court ruling this summer, some states will likely change their restrictions on abortion. That means some areas of the U.S. could wind up with more restrictive laws on abortion than other developed countries, including neighboring Canada and Mexico.

Abortions are a culture thing in Ireland. Perhaps attitudes are changing but not really. Irish abortion laws are the bare minimum so much so, it has been known that Northern Irish have gone to Britain for abortions because they are just as sceptical as the Southern Irish. I have never known and Irish person been pro abortions. Nor a Pole. The only reason anyone thinks America are the extremists on abortion rights is solely down to the fact they have made this issue a political football. If this argument was across party lines and the same judgement was made, we would not be hearing about it because abortions are a subjective topic.

[Thomas]

Abortions are legal in America.

you mentioned gerry and insinuated about anti abortion attitudes in ireland. The older more religious are against them as they are anywhere similar in the world , while the younger  , more liberal and less religous are for them. Im simply pointing out when even the once backward extremely catholic ireland legalises abortion , you know the game is up for religous nutjobs. Yankland seems to have taken a backward step.

They just won't be in states that rule against them.

you can do better than that poor attempt at sophistry boycey. Its a regressive move allowing states to rule against them. My position is women should have the right to abortion free of all religous dogma in any country or state.

If you think America is polarised on abortions bring the subject up in any bar within a Catholic state you want. Ireland most noticeably, but it can be Poland, Brazil Italy wherever and tell me who the abortion nutjobs are.

The world is polarised on many different subjects......this is the norm. What isnt the norm is taking away freedoms in a so called civilsed western democracy. yankland looking bad to the rest of us once again.

The abortion genie is out the bottle , and no matter what judge rules  on what , you can't put it back in.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/countries-abortion-legal-illegal-laws-rcna27505


If the law in the U.S. changes with a Supreme Court ruling this summer, some states will likely change their restrictions on abortion. That means some areas of the U.S. could wind up with more restrictive laws on abortion than other developed countries, including neighboring Canada and Mexico. 

[B0ycey]

Abortion is legal in ireland now isnt it? The similarity with america and ireland is when you allow religious nutjobs , wether its catholic or whatever , any input into a countries laws and freedoms.

Isnt it also the british nationalists in the north of the island who also vigourously oppose the abortion laws westmisnter forced on them ?

Abortions are legal in America. They just won't be in states that rule against them. But it wasn't my point. If you think America is polarised on abortions bring the subject up in any bar within a Catholic state you want. Ireland most noticeably, but it can be Poland, Brazil Italy wherever and tell me who the abortion nutjobs are.

[Thomas]

 Perhaps you should ask Gerry what opinion the Irish have on abortion to see if it matches the Americans to understand my point.

Abortion is legal in ireland now isnt it? The similarity with america and ireland is when you allow religious nutjobs , wether its catholic or whatever , any input into a countries laws and freedoms.

Isnt it also the british nationalists in the north of the island who also vigourously oppose the abortion laws westmisnter forced on them ?

[B0ycey]

whatever the legal rights and wrongs of this judgement , i think cromwell is correct in america is a madhouse that the rest of us in this world should stay well clear of.

Denying a woman the right to abortion to protect life we are told , while at the same time handing them guns seems to be a bit contradictory.

Well I always said that making everyone take a vaccination whilst being pro gun in America is perhaps the biggest displacement of danger I have ever known. But in regards to abortion I don't see Americans any different to the rest of the world here, except in the sense they have found a way to make this political. Perhaps you should ask Gerry what opinion the Irish have on abortion to see if it matches the Americans to understand my point.

[Thomas]

Perhaps we are arguing from different POV, but it isn't about what you just said. I have said that the SCOTUS actually reached the correct verdict in the sense the law is objective. There is no mention of abortions in the bill of rights and as such abortions cannot be constitutional. This isn't a moral argument. It is an objective one. The abortion law should be a state not a Federal decision and if I was a justice I would have reached the same conclusion. Perhaps I muddied the waters by trying to explain Barry's argument back to you, (which is you would have supported your mother aborting you), but that wasn't actually my argument but his.

whatever the legal rights and wrongs of this judgement , i think cromwell is correct in america is a madhouse that the rest of us in this world should stay well clear of.

Denying a woman the right to abortion to protect life we are told , while at the same time handing them guns seems to be a bit contradictory.

[B0ycey]

I think you should pop back and read reply #7 in this thread again.

My eldest was raped by an Islamic over here on forged papers as regards his academic prowess. He f**ked off home and died (of Aids) when he found out who I was and how many ways I knew to kill him and leave no forensic evidence

But he wasn't my problem.

A serious piece of work who has zero work ethic and the sort of attitude to abortion that queer bastard rejoicing Ng on the news last night had got in Sarah's head and conned her he would look after her and all that bollicks.

As soon as she hit 24 weeks he dumped her at Victoria bus station at 2am with a quid for the Megabus back to Newport.

I do not blame Sarah she was expertly gaslit but this c**t has been in hiding from me and six police forces for twelve years now Sarah was far from his first victim.

If I ever find him, he's going in my compost bin. He has no idea what I can do.

The father ran to die in a shithole third world dump because someone on the academic staff warned him what I knew and what materials I could still legally purchase as the MD of a company whose VAT registration was "general research and development".

Melissa doesn't know her biological father is a dead rapist.

That will be an I testing chat in nine years time.

I am not going to argue with you on an emotional subject that you are invested in on something as subjective as abortions John, if anything out of respect to you. But I will say that abortions are not the only option a mother has even if she decides that she doesn't want to look after the baby for whatever reason and that ALL options a mother has should be solely down to the law that is in place and not dictated by emotion.

[B0ycey]

Fair enough but we are arguing at cross purposes. I am criticising the notion of people not being allowed an abortion for any reason in parts of the USA. You are responding by saying they are allowed here. It is not here I am criticising.

Perhaps we are arguing from different POV, but it isn't about what you just said. I have said that the SCOTUS actually reached the correct verdict in the sense the law is objective. There is no mention of abortions in the bill of rights and as such abortions cannot be constitutional. This isn't a moral argument. It is an objective one. The abortion law should be a state not a Federal decision and if I was a justice I would have reached the same conclusion. Perhaps I muddied the waters by trying to explain Barry's argument back to you, (which is you would have supported your mother aborting you), but that wasn't actually my argument but his.

[johnofgwent]

I have made it very clear that the UK law seems about right to me and that I personally wouldn't have one. If you are raped and cannot be arsed to go to the doctors in 13 weeks (or whatever it is), then I guess you are going to have to consider adoption. 

I think you should pop back and read reply #7 in this thread again.

My eldest was raped by an Islamic over here on forged papers as regards his academic prowess. He fucked off home and died (of Aids) when he found out who I was and how many ways I knew to kill him and leave no forensic evidence

But he wasn't my problem.

A serious piece of work who has zero work ethic and the sort of attitude to abortion that queer bastard rejoicing Ng on the news last night had got in Sarah's head and conned her he would look after her and all that bollicks.

As soon as she hit 24 weeks he dumped her at Victoria bus station at 2am with a quid for the Megabus back to Newport.

I do not blame Sarah she was expertly gaslit but this c**t has been in hiding from me and six police forces for twelve years now Sarah was far from his first victim.

If I ever find him, he's going in my compost bin. He has no idea what I can do.

The father ran to die in a shithole third world dump because someone on the academic staff warned him what I knew and what materials I could still legally purchase as the MD of a company whose VAT registration was "general research and development".

Melissa doesn't know her biological father is a dead rapist.

That will be an I testing chat in nine years time.