Masks or hand sanitizer?

[BeElBeeBub]

Um.



Common sense dictates that they mean in a public enclosed space..... I doubt they mean you should wear it even in your sleep, but then again maybe I'm underestimating the impeccable logic of Boris and co.



I see someone's had a pound of brussel sprouts again

Best slogan I saw was really simple.



"My mask protects you, your mask protects me"



Wear a mask covering your nose and mouth in any public indoor space or outside if you can't stay more than 2m away at all times



Frame it a basic politeness.



"When you use a public toilet do you flush? Why do you flush? Flushing doesn't benefit you directly, but imagine a world where nobody bothered to flush"



The public health message on mask is really weak.  It only works if the majority wear masks.  Half hearted campaigns are a waste of time, and the best time to deliver the message is as lockdown is relaxed as you can frame it as a substitution - "in order to allow us to leave our houses we must all wear masks, it's a simple choice"

[BeElBeeBub]

Depends if someone has farted.

Farts have been rebranded "Covid Smell Tests"

[papasmurf]

Must be dilemma for government health information gurus to decide exactly how low a common denominator they should pitch information at. Too explicit and the charge is we're not being treated as adults. Whereas issuing instructions and guidelines that require some practical common sense in applying them to our own circumstances, and government is then accused of being unclear or misleading...

Frankly the morons and pigs who have rocked up locally over the last few days are too thick and/or too illiterate to read notices in large print that state Site of Special Scientific Interest, No Camping, No overnight stays, no fires, no barbecues.

[patman post]

Must be dilemma for government health information gurus to decide exactly how low a common denominator they should pitch information at. Too explicit and the charge is we're not being treated as adults. Whereas issuing instructions and guidelines that require some practical common sense in applying them to our own circumstances, and government is then accused of being unclear or misleading...

[Borg Refinery]

You'll love this Tweet which came out half an hour ago:

https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1267793326599798784/photo/1">//https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1267793326599798784/photo/1

As I'm in my living room, an enclosed space, should I be wearing a mask?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZgaqIEXQAg611T?format=jpg&name=medium">

Um.



Common sense dictates that they mean in a public enclosed space..... I doubt they mean you should wear it even in your sleep, but then again maybe I'm underestimating the impeccable logic of Boris and co.



I see someone's had a pound of brussel sprouts again

[papasmurf]

As I'm in my living room, an enclosed space, should I be wearing a mask?

Depends if someone has farted.

[Barry]

You'll love this Tweet which came out half an hour ago:

https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1267793326599798784/photo/1">//https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1267793326599798784/photo/1

As I'm in my living room, an enclosed space, should I be wearing a mask?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZgaqIEXQAg611T?format=jpg&name=medium">

[BeElBeeBub]

Unless people keep to all of these rules, masks can be more of a hazard than none.

https://www.who.int/images/default-source/departments/epi-win/how-to-use-mask-v0-1-digital.tmb-1920v.png">

I've seen those arguments.



I can see that if you are wearing a mask to *prevent yourself getting CV* then some of the arguments are valid.  Unless the mask is a good one and well fitted it probably won't stop tiny droplets.  I would say that if the outside of the mask gets so contaminated that it is a contamination risk itself, that would mean you've probably been well exposed and if you hadn't been wearing a mask would have inhaled the same droplets that are now on the outside of your mask.



But if you flip the reason around so the mask is to stop you giving CV to other people, the calculation becomes different.  If the mask is contaminated with CV it's because you've already got it, so that isn't an issue (the disposal still is). Even if it only partially cuts the amount of virus emitted by you it will still reduce the infection risk around you.



Which is why for mask wearing to be effective it needs to be very widespread (effectively compulsory).  



In the context of the OP, I was asking in what circumstances is hand washing effective yet mask wearing not?  I can only see one case (that touch transfer of very small particles is the dominant mechanism) which seems a little unlikely



Many other countries who are performing better than us have gone for mask wearing. Of course we can't be certain of the effect because of all the other factors but it doesn't seem to be hampering their efforts (which implies it doesn't have a net downside).



Put it this way, if it was proven that wearing a mask was effective enough that we could abandon most of the other measures and get back to "normal" just masked would you resist?

[papasmurf]

You have open public bogs....



We dont.....

Not open yet but when they are they are as I just described. It was a national scandal before Covid-19. Practically none will be fit for purpose when reopened.

[johnofgwent]

The hand washing rules are wonderful, just one problem, its is OK at home but public bogs are often the only running water is your own, if there is running water it is cold, the soap dispensers are broken or empty, and the hand dryer if there is one is broken.

You have open public bogs....



We dont.....

[papasmurf]

The hand washing rules are wonderful, just one problem, its is OK at home but public bogs are often the only running water is your own, if there is running water it is cold, the soap dispensers are broken or empty, and the hand dryer if there is one is broken.

[Barry]

Unless people keep to all of these rules, masks can be more of a hazard than none.

https://www.who.int/images/default-source/departments/epi-win/how-to-use-mask-v0-1-digital.tmb-1920v.png">

[Barry]

WHO advice on masks. It's not just a matter of putting one on.

If you are healthy, you don't need one, unless looking after an infected person.

https://www.who.int/images/default-source/departments/epi-win/when-to-use-a-mask-v0-1-digital.tmb-1920v.png">

[papasmurf]

Masks or hand sanitizer?  With the chaos locally over the week-end frankly a Porton suit.

[BeElBeeBub]

Well they do advise you wear them if it makes you feel safer.

which is almost the worst advice. As you say the mask protects the bystanders not the user.



Wearing a mask and thinking "right, I'm safe" is almost the worst position.

But as to why they aren't "pushing mask wearing", well to do so would contradict their message at the start of lockdown and make people ask why their advice has changed considering the science hasn't.

But being the safety is in regards to everyone wearing them - as to wear them protects not the user but those around them - I don't see why they haven't made them mandatory in places where social distancing isn't possible to be maintained in order to square the round peg and fix the problem of over crowding on public transport.

exactly. Even if it knocks R down by just a bit it helps.

Stubbornness loses lives but it also limits your options to move forward.

yup. All through this government has seemed to prioritise the appearance of things over effectiveness.



"Capacity for 200k tests" - what the heck is that?