It woz the care homes wot dunnit.

[Thomas]

From figures  published UK care home deaths were nine times greater than in Germany,whatever the figures elsewhere doesn't excuse Boris from shifting blame does it? We should be striving to be better anyway rather than saying oh well Spains or wherever are comparable.

Doesnt make sense what you are saying. There is no uk care home sector as we know , it is broken down by constituent nation , and how differently they are funded and run. Furthermore johnson and the conservative government arent in charge of "uk care homes" , only english care homes .

The figures i have seen for england appear to be comparable to many other european nations .

Look cromwell , im not a tory as you know , but its well known the english care home and general social care sector has been in turmoil for decades , with the can being kicked down the road in terms of funding and generally sorting out social care by both tory and labour governments.

Covid 19 certainly seems to have exacerbated the problems , and this seems to have happened to a lesser or greater degree in many countries around the world.

Look at this thread. You have john of gwent moaning about labour run welsh devolved care home deaths , nothing directly to do with johnson and the westminster tories , you have folk here moaning about the scottish care home deaths , nothing directly to do with johnson and the tories , my brother in law in south east France was saying the same to me about the french moaning about their government and care home deaths etc , and so on.

Im not sure what you want governments to do around the world ?

The average age of covid 19 deaths in english care homes was between 75 - 79 years old , and with respect  , this is similar to scotland and many other countries  .

[papasmurf]

Who decides — is it a definite fact or, like best before dates on packs of dried lentils, an arbitrary ruling by jobsworths...?

The manufacturer. (When it comes to safety critical kit, it has to be thrown away or repurposed  into something else. For instance I used rocket line used to in rescues at sea to repair some chairs because the original rushes had worn out.)
A Neil Robertson design flexible stretcher used for getting casualties out of a confined space  and vertically lifts makes a good hammock with a bit of DIY, but does not have a long shelf life. (They are only about £50 from China so I expect most of the time they are a use once only item.)

[patman post]

Due to globalisation and international travel by air I doubt it takes more than 24 hours for something nasty to get anywhere in the World.

Luckily, it looks like Trump is staying home...

[papasmurf]

Could be the attitude was: "It's happening in China and over in Italy, so it'll be ages before it reaches the UK".

Due to globalisation and international travel by air I doubt it takes more than 24 hours for something nasty to get anywhere in the World.

[patman post]

Most of it, (looking at the PPE in my wife and I's PPE store,) has a three year shelf life.

Who decides — is it a definite fact or, like best before dates on packs of dried lentils, an arbitrary ruling by jobsworths...?

[patman post]

It was known care homes in ,Italy, in particular had a real problem in February, early March. So shouldn't we have been in a position to learn from that.?. Why was it considered good practice here to place untested individuals from  hospital beds, into more vulnerable care  beds, when there was evidence from Italy alone as to the dangers involved.? If you don't learn from a clear warning  it's no surprise  when you get the same bad result.

Could be the attitude was: "It's happening in China and over in Italy, so it'll be ages before it reaches the UK".
This quickly changed to: "Don't panic..."

[papasmurf]

So many unanswered questions...

Most of it, (looking at the PPE in my wife and I's PPE store,) has a three year shelf life.

[patman post]

Also keeping in mind that any PPE stockpile has to be continuously monitored for use by dates, replaced where needed, and if you really want to be safe has to contain all the permutations of PPE equipment that might be needed for any type of illness or virus that could theoretically occur.

Interesting. But which PPE items need use by dates? Masks, overalls, visors, etc, shouldn't deteriorate. Latex and butyl gloves might, but even they should last for years if stored correctly. Designs might change for some, but are previous patterns unsafe?
Do different diseases require different PPE — or do medical staff just draw the appropriate items from a general store?
So many unanswered questions...

[johnofgwent]

Isnt the care home death toll across the uk similar to many european countries rather than an exception?

Honestly, I don't know, not least because I long ago gave up caring about what the F@@@ other countries are doing or not doing.

All I care about is what we are, or are not , doing, and the only fact I know is the welsh twats sent 2000 people to infect a vulnerable population.

Some would call that genocide.

[Good old]

It was known care homes in ,Italy, in particular had a real problem in February, early March. So shouldn't we have been in a position to learn from that.?. Why was it considered good practice here to place untested individuals from  hospital beds, into more vulnerable care  beds, when there was evidence from Italy alone as to the dangers involved.? If you don't learn from a clear warning  it's no surprise  when you get the same bad result.

[cromwell]

Says Boris,bloody priceless blame shifting when it is well known beds were block booked by e govt  before this took off to shift the elderly in to care homes with corona virus thereby resulting in so many deaths.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-coronavirus-care-home-death-toll-uk-update-a9604426.html

Isnt the care home death toll across the uk similar to many european countries rather than an exception?

Half of coronavirus deaths happen in care homes, data from EU suggests

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/half-of-coronavirus-deaths-happen-in-care-homes-data-from-eu-suggests

The deadly impact of COVID-19 on Europe's care homes

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/08/the-deadly-impact-of-covid-19-on-europe-s-care-home

From figures  published UK care home deaths were nine times greater than in Germany,whatever the figures elsewhere doesn't excuse Boris from shifting blame does it? We should be striving to be better anyway rather than saying oh well Spains or wherever are comparable.

[Thomas]

Says Boris,bloody priceless blame shifting when it is well known beds were block booked by e govt  before this took off to shift the elderly in to care homes with corona virus thereby resulting in so many deaths.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-coronavirus-care-home-death-toll-uk-update-a9604426.html

Isnt the care home death toll across the uk similar to many european countries rather than an exception?

Half of coronavirus deaths happen in care homes, data from EU suggests

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/half-of-coronavirus-deaths-happen-in-care-homes-data-from-eu-suggests

The deadly impact of COVID-19 on Europe's care homes

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/08/the-deadly-impact-of-covid-19-on-europe-s-care-home

[papasmurf]

Also keeping in mind that any PPE stockpile has to be continuously monitored for use by dates, replaced where needed, and if you really want to be safe has to contain all the permutations of PPE equipment that might be needed for any type of illness or virus that could theoretically occur.

A buffer store is just that, use what is close to its expiry date and replace with new.  That is how my wife and I operate our "apocalypse" store cupboard.

[Javert]

My wife and I have been expecting a pandemic of some kind for several decades. Before my wife retired early through ill health from being the senior night   nursing staff in a nursing home, she had managed over time to clear out a unused room, of the many years of abandoned bits and pieces in it.
She suggest to the owners that the room be used as a buffer store for PPE in case of a pandemic or similar emergency.
She got told to (expletive deleted,) off.

This is a good idea and commendable, but to me it's an example of where regulations and mandates should be there, rather than relying on the pot luck of which care home provider happened to plan forward for a pandemic.  The government had a huge pandemic PPE stock in warehouses and they were supposed to provide this. 

If individual private care homes are supposed to do their own pandemic planning and keep a continuous stock of PPE, then it should be mandated to do that by the relevant regulations like the Health and Social Care Act.  I really think it would be disingenuous to retrospectively try to claim that care homes should have planned ahead for a pandemic scenario and kept an individual stockpile of PPE.

Also keeping in mind that any PPE stockpile has to be continuously monitored for use by dates, replaced where needed, and if you really want to be safe has to contain all the permutations of PPE equipment that might be needed for any type of illness or virus that could theoretically occur.

[Good old]

I doubt that most care homes make huge profits in order to prepare for one in a hundred year events.

Many are teetering on edge of bankruptcy.

https://www.carehomeprofessional.com/uk-faces-national-crisis-as-6500-care-homes-could-close-knight-frank-warns/

MAY 26, 2020

The UK is facing a national crisis with 6,500 care homes totalling 140,000 beds at risk of closure over the next five years, Knight Frank has warned.

This whole sector has been in something approaching crisis for some time now. Bed blocking in the hospitals often went hand in glove with the problems already in the supply of care. Put the two together ,and it was an accident waiting to happen.  Which might lead some people to see  COVID, as the accident. But was it really an accident or an excuse for an accident.