Margaret Thatcher split off topic

[Thomas]

Of course you agree , it can only lead to perpetual true blue Tory administrations ,right up your street for whatever remote reason.

Sottish labours new policy vote tory

Robert James McNeill is the vice chairman of the East Lothian Constituency Labour Party and chair of the Tranent Local Labour Party. He's also a member of the Scottish Labour Party Policy Forum, which develops the Scottish Labour manifesto.

But it's the first one, in which he actively calls on people to vote Conservative in seven Scottish seats at the forthcoming election, that'll raise a few eyebrows, particularly as Mr McNeill's recent timeline is otherwise confusingly full of furious denunciations of the SNP for allegedly collaborating with the Tories.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/scottish-labours-new-policy-vote-tory/#more-67308


Same old blairite labour good old , denouncing people for enabling tory administrations when its exactly what you do in scotland. Get into bed wae the evil tories.

[Thomas]

Do you know Thomas, I'm really far from angry about any of this . But I'm bored shitless at your school boy style efforts page after boring page to come up looking like the brightest kid in the class.
You achieve f**k all basically because Im still here unimpressed by your pathetic manoeuvring . You carry on entertaining  Snoopy, Sleepy, whatever, and the rest of the little club you perform for . I don't accept more than small part of your drivel , I just accept that you will repeat yourselves till hell comes down, sometime shortly after 20weeks time.
So see you in hell.

ah yer back to being bored now. Is it because you dont have an answer to the many real points that are being thrown at you by not just me , but others such as srb?

you seem really angry that democracy is finally being enacted in 20 weeks.

Isnt calling it hell just a wee bit over the top mate?

Calm down dear.

[Good old]

If it's down to a ballot box the further left you go the less chance you have. You need a revolution mate.

Actually that depends where the centre ground of the British public actually is, not where the elites and their organs - inside as well as outside our party - say it is for self-interested reasons.

Most of the policies in our 2017 manifesto were very popular according to polls. As an intelligent man you are surely aware of that? So why move away from that in defence of the Thatcherite status quo? The "centre" of public opinion was with us on those policies. Note how the establishment rolled out smear after smear and focussed upon Brexit, and avoided attacking most of those actual policies.

Your hero Blair pursued Tory housing policies unchanged with disastrous effect, whilst doing nothing to rein back on the growth of ever more insecure work contracts. What makes you think that would be more popular than abolishing zero hours, building more social housing, and securing fairer rents and adequate security for millions of private tenants? Have you learned nothing? Is your judgement so blinkered and limited? Your facts so selective?

well said steve.

fully agree with you.

2017 is a complete inconvenience to the blairite fantasy that labours problems were all the fault of corbyn .

They have learned nothing , and even if starmer does get another kicking at the next election , good old will still be trying to sell a blairite pig in a poke cause thats all he has.

Of course you agree , it can only lead to perpetual true blue Tory administrations ,right up your street for whatever remote reason.

[Sheepy]

Anyway it still stands, the idealism was good, the Parliamentary party had no intention of letting you carry any of it forward.

[Good old]

20 weeks to brexit mate , then it will be all over  for you.

Do you know Thomas, I'm really far from angry about any of this . But I'm bored shitless at your school boy style efforts page after boring page to come up looking like the brightest kid in the class.
You achieve F@@@ all basically because Im still here unimpressed by your pathetic manoeuvring . You carry on entertaining  Snoopy, Sleepy, whatever, and the rest of the little club you perform for . I don't accept more than small part of your drivel , I just accept that you will repeat yourselves till hell comes down, sometime shortly after 20weeks time.
So see you in hell.

[Thomas]

If it's down to a ballot box the further left you go the less chance you have. You need a revolution mate.

Actually that depends where the centre ground of the British public actually is, not where the elites and their organs - inside as well as outside our party - say it is for self-interested reasons.

Most of the policies in our 2017 manifesto were very popular according to polls. As an intelligent man you are surely aware of that? So why move away from that in defence of the Thatcherite status quo? The "centre" of public opinion was with us on those policies. Note how the establishment rolled out smear after smear and focussed upon Brexit, and avoided attacking most of those actual policies.

Your hero Blair pursued Tory housing policies unchanged with disastrous effect, whilst doing nothing to rein back on the growth of ever more insecure work contracts. What makes you think that would be more popular than abolishing zero hours, building more social housing, and securing fairer rents and adequate security for millions of private tenants? Have you learned nothing? Is your judgement so blinkered and limited? Your facts so selective?

well said steve.

fully agree with you.

2017 is a complete inconvenience to the blairite fantasy that labours problems were all the fault of corbyn .

They have learned nothing , and even if starmer does get another kicking at the next election , good old will still be trying to sell a blairite pig in a poke cause thats all he has.

[Thomas]

Given the impending doom of a crash out Brexit on top of Covid-19, that could be sooner rather than later.

The economic damage of covid 19 has already overshadowed the worst fearmongering by remainers over brexit.

Anyway i thought you supported aspects of brexit like stopping freedom of movement and blairite labours mass uncontrolled immigration?

[srb7677]

If it's down to a ballot box the further left you go the less chance you have. You need a revolution mate.

Actually that depends where the centre ground of the British public actually is, not where the elites and their organs - inside as well as outside our party - say it is for self-interested reasons.

Most of the policies in our 2017 manifesto were very popular according to polls. As an intelligent man you are surely aware of that? So why move away from that in defence of the Thatcherite status quo? The "centre" of public opinion was with us on those policies. Note how the establishment rolled out smear after smear and focussed upon Brexit, and avoided attacking most of those actual policies.

Your hero Blair pursued Tory housing policies unchanged with disastrous effect, whilst doing nothing to rein back on the growth of ever more insecure work contracts. What makes you think that would be more popular than abolishing zero hours, building more social housing, and securing fairer rents and adequate security for millions of private tenants? Have you learned nothing? Is your judgement so blinkered and limited? Your facts so selective?

[Thomas]

You need 12- 13million votes ..

which an anti demcoratic party like labour wont get.

We are long past the old blairite days of holding the core left wing vote while appealing to the small c tory marginals , the left wing vote then had no where to go , they do now. So blairism is fecked.

See what i mean about re hashing the past over and over ?

Thats all you have.

An internal war like a hole in the head.

labour need starmer and the blairites like a hole in the head. Of course as i said , you arent listning and refuse to learn lessons .

The only thing the Tories fear is having that middle ground taken from them

im confused?

You said the tories arent middle ground , you are , and that the tories are hard right and increasingly nationalistic over brexit?

Just more blairite out of date politcs and old hat from 20 years ago.

and  Corbyn couldn't touch it

2017?

Blair could and they were frightened shirtless for a while.

bollocks. See previous explanations of why things fell into place for blair , and the high  cost to labour of those damning blairite years in power which will haunt them for a long time to come.

You need a revolution mate.

What like the blairites PFI revolution?

[papasmurf]

You need a revolution mate.

Given the impending doom of a crash out Brexit on top of Covid-19, that could be sooner rather than later.

[Thomas]

By the way, you can't say Left wing party, you have to say "centre Left" or otherwise you are not in the centre but a left wing agitator. But your biggest problem was when signing up in droves for the Labour party, is your idealism had nothing in common with Labours Parliamentary wing, you were just a usable resource.

That much of Labour's parliamentary wing was and still is so irredeemably Blairite was always a major problem, and should have been tackled far more effectively by empowering the local members over their MPs. Mandatory reselection - oh how they hated the notion - would have either forced accountability to local members or facilitated the removal of Blairite Thatcherite collaborators who would not or could not comply.

The problem should have been recognised from the start - and wasn't fully - and faced head on. Corbyn's problem was that he was too nice. We needed someone who was nice in general but prepared to be ruthless with establishmentarian collaborators when necessary. They simply took advantage of his reluctance to do so.

i agree with you steve , but again you have to admit you failed massively in terms of dealing with brexit.

In 2014 in scotland , while running around carping how evil the tories were , you allowed the blairites to get into bed with the tories to stop scottish indy makeing you look silly to the scottish nation who punished you accordingly.

Last december , you again allowed the blairites in your party ( starmer) to piss of the 61% of labour constituencies by coming out with some puerile policy of stoping brexit , and were punished accordingly.

The people gave you an answer of what they wanted in 2016 , and wether you agreed or not , you should have went with it , instead , you appeared anti democratic , and were hammered over it.

You cant just ignore the uncomfortable truths in politics and hope they will go away like the big  constitutional issues like brexit , you have to come to terms with them as the tories did ( jumped from a pro remain to pro leave party in four years).

Labour appear to just stand like a rabbit caught in the headlights on the big issues.

[Sheepy]

By the way, you can't say Left wing party, you have to say "centre Left" or otherwise you are not in the centre but a left wing agitator. But your biggest problem was when signing up in droves for the Labour party, is your idealism had nothing in common with Labours Parliamentary wing, you were just a usable resource.

That much of Labour's parliamentary wing was and still is so irredeemably Blairite was always a major problem, and should have been tackled far more effectively by empowering the local members over their MPs. Mandatory reselection - oh how they hated the notion - would have either forced accountability to local members or facilitated the removal of Blairite Thatcherite collaborators who would not or could not comply.

The problem should have been recognised from the start - and wasn't fully - and faced head on. Corbyn's problem was that he was too nice. We needed someone who was nice in general but prepared to be ruthless with establishmentarian collaborators when necessary. They simply took advantage of his reluctance to do so.

Well the Tories were given the choice, either deselect the anti-brexit agitators or lose the election, they soon made a choice. Or the likelihood of Farage as Prime minster was a done deal. We had proved we had the numbers and could win an election hands down.

[Good old]

England is crying out for a left wing party , its not healthy for your democracy having the blairites back in charge.

The problem is that the political/economic/media elites who control everything down here don't want a genuine democratic choice, lest one of those choices threaten them. They just want two different versions of the same old shit to give the illusion of democracy.

Anyone who threatens that will face the full force of Thatcherite establishment dirty tricks. And complicit in that will be their establishment allies in our own party.

The lesson we on the left need to learn is that cooperating with these elements in our own ranks - still less appeasing them - doesn't actually work. It only empowers and emboldens them. We need to deal with the Thatcherite collaborators in our own ranks ruthlessly, so that we are fit to challenge the citadels of the elites without being attacked from the rear all the time.

I wish I had what you guys have - a political option to leave the corrupt set up.

You need 12- 13million votes .An internal war like a hole in the head. The only thing the Tories fear is having that middle ground taken from them , and  Corbyn couldn't touch it.  Blair could and they were frightened shirtless for a while. If it's down to a ballot box the further left you go the less chance you have. You need a revolution mate.

[srb7677]

By the way, you can't say Left wing party, you have to say "centre Left" or otherwise you are not in the centre but a left wing agitator. But your biggest problem was when signing up in droves for the Labour party, is your idealism had nothing in common with Labours Parliamentary wing, you were just a usable resource.

That much of Labour's parliamentary wing was and still is so irredeemably Blairite was always a major problem, and should have been tackled far more effectively by empowering the local members over their MPs. Mandatory reselection - oh how they hated the notion - would have either forced accountability to local members or facilitated the removal of Blairite Thatcherite collaborators who would not or could not comply.

The problem should have been recognised from the start - and wasn't fully - and faced head on. Corbyn's problem was that he was too nice. We needed someone who was nice in general but prepared to be ruthless with establishmentarian collaborators when necessary. They simply took advantage of his reluctance to do so.

[Thomas]

Just a little one Thomas , the world refers , to ,the British, Navy, the British Army, the British government

all remanants from the days of the empire , when they talked about a british empire.

The idea of a british nation that you think of is a modern concept that has arisen over the past 50 years mainly. It still doesnt detract from the fact there is no nation on earth called britian .If there is a get a map out and show me where this mythical nation is?

, at the Olympics  we are GB.

...but that not because you are a gb nation  is it?

British citizens in northern ireland represent ireland at the olympics , so a poor example of desperate straw clutching.

Strictly  speaking you  are right .

I know.

Its not my fault you dont even know the name of your own so called nation  , and constantly conflate a colloquialism with reality.

But  that's  how the world sees us.

No it doesnt. The french for example rarely if ever talk of GB. Britain to them is brittany in the north west of their country , and the average frenchman normally refers to angleterre and know the difference between scotland and england.

That is until you lot f—k off.

you getting angry now good old?

Yer a nationalist that has no trouble voting for a majority left of centre policy.

yep i explained why. I would vote for a hard right wing party if it got me independence. Whats your point again?

I don't use my nationalism on my sleeve

aye you do. When its convenient.

I just own up to supporting left of centre policy.

you are all over the palce again. One minute you are a blsairite who owns the middle ground , the next centre left.

True centre  left people like srb want you out of their party.

Yet you think you don't come across as someone who wastes reams of space to go nowhere.

boohoo , you sound increasingly angry and bitter at your failure to convinve anyone ,eeven those in your own feckin party , of your muddled politics.

20 weeks to brexit mate , then it will be all over  for you.