Have I lost the plot?

[T00ts]

The profits of doom:-

https://twitter.com/Beaker64625289

Don't dwell on it Papy - I missed the boat too.

[papasmurf]

The profits of doom:-

https://twitter.com/Beaker64625289

[T00ts]

I thought we were like the Duke and Duchess of Sussex - in transition. Nothing is completely  complete until the New Year.

[Thomas]

Nope you are twisting what i am saying.

Quote me where we disagree on this? I havent said fishing "will " be better or worse.

I have made the point time and again to you no matter the economic subject , or the outcome , you lost the referndum in 2016 , and brexit has to be enacted.

I have also pointed oput borkie saying ( and others) they are prepared to accept the consequences of brexit one way or the other.

Thats why i keep saying you are standing in a dark room shouting at yourself.

Fair enough I apologise.

We seem to agree on all the points then

The failure to agree a FTA will be bad for fishing (amongst others)

The one thing we do seem to disagree on is whether or not Brexit has happened

It has happened. The UK left the EU. The mandate from the referendum is 100% discharged and we are simply waiting for the impact to be felt.

i think you need to re read what i wrote and not what you think i wrote.

[BeElBeeBub]

Nope you are twisting what i am saying.

Quote me where we disagree on this? I havent said fishing "will " be better or worse.

I have made the point time and again to you no matter the economic subject , or the outcome , you lost the referndum in 2016 , and brexit has to be enacted.

I have also pointed oput borkie saying ( and others) they are prepared to accept the consequences of brexit one way or the other.

Thats why i keep saying you are standing in a dark room shouting at yourself.

Fair enough I apologise.

We seem to agree on all the points then

The failure to agree a FTA will be bad for fishing (amongst others)

The one thing we do seem to disagree on is whether or not Brexit has happened

It has happened. The UK left the EU. The mandate from the referendum is 100% discharged and we are simply waiting for the impact to be felt.

[Thomas]

However, we disagree that UK fishing will be better off after what looks increasingly like "no deal" brexit.

Nope you are twisting what i am saying.

Quote me where we disagree on this? I havent said fishing "will " be better or worse.

I have made the point time and again to you no matter the economic subject , or the outcome , you lost the referndum in 2016 , and brexit has to be enacted.

I have also pointed oput borkie saying ( and others) they are prepared to accept the consequences of brexit one way or the other.

Thats why i keep saying you are standing in a dark room shouting at yourself.

[Thomas]

All statements have some degree of spin.

Thank you for being honest then.

So when remainers bleat about leave telling porkies to win the referendum in 2016 , what you are really saying is you are pissed off leave lied better than you.?

[papasmurf]

I cannot believe that both sides cannot be adult enough to come to a reasonable agreement without all the silly posturing.

The problem is it is Bojo-The-Clown doing the silly posturing and if he restarts the "troubles" in Northern Ireland with his latest provocative proposal he won't be PM for long.

[T00ts]

Surely the whole point of the negotiations is that they should evolve into fair outcomes. Should the EU be seen to commandeer more than their fair share while reducing the prospects for our welfare in the future? What comes around goes around and after New Year we are still going to be close neighbours with stuff to sell on both sides. Surely for the sake of a peaceful future both sides need to be seen to be working not for an acrimonious divorce but a relationship that admits on both sides that it was unhappy and that we work better apart than in each others pockets.

I cannot believe that both sides cannot be adult enough to come to a reasonable agreement without all the silly posturing. 

[papasmurf]

It's worth remembering that nothing in our history has done more to damage our fishing industry than joining the CFP.

There are other factors. Technology making it easier for anyone who does not suffer from sea sickness to buy a boat stick all the latest fish finding kit and make living. (That is a major reason for depleted fish stocks.) It does not apply now but the damage was done decades ago.
If it comes to making a living from fishing using skill and knowledge built up over generations and not technology, there are not many left who make a living, (That apples to small inshore boats and locally that is three.)
Anyone trying to fish where they do would die.
Back in the 1960s I used to go fishing with one man with such skills when I was on holiday. It was bloody scary, but he did catch a lot of lobster and rock lobsters, (crayfish,) and also fish like monkfish and Turbot.

[Baff]

It's worth remembering that nothing in our history has done more to damage our fishing industry than joining the CFP.

[BeElBeeBub]

yet its a tacit admission of a certain amount of spin , something you are constantly bleating about brexiters doing while remaining blind to your own sides lies.

All statements have some degree of spin.

If you cherry pick facts and use emotive language you can make any case.

However, I have tried to present as much of the contextual data around my statements as possible.

We seem to be creeping into a post factual world where it's all about how one feels and then you pick the facts to support your argument.

Has UK fishing declined. Yes
Is the EU quota system perfect - far from it.

I think we agree on these statements.

However, we disagree that UK fishing will be better off after what looks increasingly like "no deal" brexit.

We only have a little longer to see what happens

Mind you I fully expect that even if UK fishing declined even further it would still hailed as a victory

They can have the largest sailing fleet in the world for all anyone cares , it means nothing if you dont have the waters to fish in. A large part if not the majority of the spanish catch is outside their own waters.......they rely on agreements to fish other people territory.

You are merely proving how lack of any agreement will damage eu nations like spain badly.

Yes, it will hurt the Spanish (and other EU) fishing industries.

It will almost certainly hurt the UK one even more.

Is it really worth destroying our fishing industry (remember most of the money in sea food isn't in catching fish) just to see some Spanish captains lose their boats?

[BeElBeeBub]

yet its a tacit admission of a certain amount of spin , something you are constantly bleating about brexiters doing while remaining blind to your own sides lies.

All statements have some degree of spin.

If you cherry pick facts and use emotive language you can make any case.

However, I have tried to present as much of the contextual data around my statements as possible.

We seem to be creeping into a post factual world where it's all about how one feels and then you pick the facts to support your argument.

Has UK fishing declined. Yes
Is the EU quota system perfect - far from it.

I think we agree on these statements.

However, we disagree that UK fishing will be better off after what looks increasingly like "no deal" brexit.

We only have a little longer to see what happens

Mind you I fully expect that even if UK fishing declined even further it would still hailed as a victory.

[T00ts]

The EU is just playing games. There are many things that still need discussion but Barnier won't talk about anything else until he has succeeded on brow beating us over fishing. He has stalled everything simply to force our hand or so he thinks. We are just pushing back. Fishing rights is just a useful ploy to up the anti.

[Thomas]

No one is losing access to EU markets.
Only facing tariffs.

Other markets are available.

The only thing changing is "who rules here".

And that is proving to be a bitter pill for some to swallow.

Quite.

Which is why so many voted Brexit.

As to the negotiations, they appear to hinge on fishing rights.

In terms of GDP the Scottish fishing industry is worth about a penny out of every five pounds a Scot earns. So there may be lots of social and political reasons for an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU, but the spoondollies ain't one of them.In fact about fifty years ago our crafty Caledonian chums twigged that rather charging across the oceans and risk drowning, it was easier and smarter to set up fish farms around the coast. As a result one third of Scottish fish is currently farmed and at the glacial rate talks with the EU progress, by the time quotas are agreed there won't be any wild fishing to have quotas about.

without a doubt borkie , i think i said that back along the thread somewhere , how little fishing makes up of scottish GDP. On top of that many scottish fishermen as we know voted brexit.