UK unveils new weapon in negotiations....

[Nick]

It's amazing how robust the EU is, it can survive anything and isn't going to miss 13% of it's budget. Yet it is adamant the UK should sign up to a level playing field policy.
The mighty EU scared that the UK will have an advantage over it's cartel.

The EU budget is to only run some institutions and a tiny percentage of the EU market, this has been explained to you many times Nick, but you don't seem to grasp numbers. And it's nowhere near 13% of the EU budget, it's net contributions, not gross that you need to look at.
Simple economics Nick, supply and demand, the EU creates the demand and the suppliers (many) will fight for that business, in a competitive way. If there were only one supplier then the EU is in trouble, but there are many.
The Eu doesn't want a a country on it's door creating problems. Let me explain it to you in simple terms. It's more complicated but you wouldn't follow the complicated answer.
State Aid:  Without a level playing field the UK can financially prop a UK business, lets say this sector supplies widgets, with UK govt financial backing and a tariif & quota free access to the EU, the UK widget sector goes into overdrive and under cuts the EU widget manufactures that don't receive govt support. The EU widget sector is wiped out over a number of yrs, the UK stops supporting the UK widget sector which now has a monopoly in the UK and EU markets, prices rise and the UK domestic market wins, exports grow and EU euros flow into the UK creating jobs/takes/reducing dole numbers. And you think it's unfair of the UK to restrict a geographically close country from undermining the EU in sectors the UK chooses. This just shows the lack of understanding you have of trade.

The UK has left and won't get a tariff free/regulations free access to the EU as if it were a member. It won't get it's cake and eat it, the UK needs to stop saying the EU is bulling the UK just because the EU won't give the UK what it asks for.

I have neither the time nor crayons to continue to answer your nonsense.

[GerryT]

It's amazing how robust the EU is, it can survive anything and isn't going to miss 13% of it's budget. Yet it is adamant the UK should sign up to a level playing field policy.
The mighty EU scared that the UK will have an advantage over it's cartel. 

The EU budget is to only run some institutions and a tiny percentage of the EU market, this has been explained to you many times Nick, but you don't seem to grasp numbers. And it's nowhere near 13% of the EU budget, it's net contributions, not gross that you need to look at.
Simple economics Nick, supply and demand, the EU creates the demand and the suppliers (many) will fight for that business, in a competitive way. If there were only one supplier then the EU is in trouble, but there are many.
The Eu doesn't want a a country on it's door creating problems. Let me explain it to you in simple terms. It's more complicated but you wouldn't follow the complicated answer.
State Aid:  Without a level playing field the UK can financially prop a UK business, lets say this sector supplies widgets, with UK govt financial backing and a tariif & quota free access to the EU, the UK widget sector goes into overdrive and under cuts the EU widget manufactures that don't receive govt support. The EU widget sector is wiped out over a number of yrs, the UK stops supporting the UK widget sector which now has a monopoly in the UK and EU markets, prices rise and the UK domestic market wins, exports grow and EU euros flow into the UK creating jobs/takes/reducing dole numbers. And you think it's unfair of the UK to restrict a geographically close country from undermining the EU in sectors the UK chooses. This just shows the lack of understanding you have of trade.

The UK has left and won't get a tariff free/regulations free access to the EU as if it were a member. It won't get it's cake and eat it, the UK needs to stop saying the EU is bulling the UK just because the EU won't give the UK what it asks for.

[Nick]

I have to laugh, if a multinational with sound business credentials wants to borrow money then there's people with money that want's to lend it to them at a profit. The UK doesn't "make" the money. The EU doesn't need the London financial sector, it will be a minor inconvenience for a short time for the EU, long term the UK finance sector will take a hit.

It's amazing how robust the EU is, it can survive anything and isn't going to miss 13% of it's budget. Yet it is adamant the UK should sign up to a level playing field policy.
The mighty EU scared that the UK will have an advantage over it's cartel. 

[GerryT]

I have to laugh, if a multinational with sound business credentials wants to borrow money then there's people with money that want's to lend it to them at a profit. The UK doesn't "make" the money. The EU doesn't need the London financial sector, it will be a minor inconvenience for a short time for the EU, long term the UK finance sector will take a hit.

[Stevlin]

Lol...............Clearly British.....albeit, it does look more like Macron   ;o)

[papasmurf]

You seem to be as barmy as Barnier....the 'nationality' of fish, just like the oceans is somewhat fluid....but fish, when in UK waters are BRITISH fish....and when in French waters become French fish.....and they don't need passports.

Sorry, I could not resist it:-

[Stevlin]

It's true though.

Fish move through waters.  There is no such thing as "British fish" just "fish who happened to be passing through British waters"

There is a good point here though.

Two people can read the same article and come away with different impressions.

You seem to be as barmy as Barnier....the 'nationality' of fish, just like the oceans is somewhat fluid....but fish, when in UK waters are BRITISH fish....and when in French waters become French fish.....and they don't need passports.

[Sheepy]

Are you reading the same article as me? This one has one paragraph about warning the EU, the rest is showing what a complete arse Barnier is. "The waters might be sovereign but the fish aren't" 😂. Who is he? Danny champion of the world?

It's true though.

Fish move through waters.  There is no such thing as "British fish" just "fish who happened to be passing through British waters"

There is a good point here though.

Two people can read the same article and come away with different impressions.

Pure technicality bureaucratic double speak.

[BeElBeeBub]

Are you reading the same article as me? This one has one paragraph about warning the EU, the rest is showing what a complete arse Barnier is. "The waters might be sovereign but the fish aren't" 😂. Who is he? Danny champion of the world?

It's true though.

Fish move through waters.  There is no such thing as "British fish" just "fish who happened to be passing through British waters"

There is a good point here though.

Two people can read the same article and come away with different impressions.

[BeElBeeBub]

It was mainly this bit I was on about.

The Sunday Express has learnt that a dossier is being considered by Downing Street proposing that the EU could be punished for refusing to strike a deal by limiting access to being able to raise money on the London financial markets.

A source has told the Sunday Express that the threat is "set to become a big issue at the end of this week" and "it is currently on the Prime Minister's desk being considered."

The nuclear option drawn up by senior Brexiteer economists would put the squeeze on major corporations based in the EU who raise trillions of euros on the London markets each year.

The combination of different financial rules in the UK and toxic debt in the EU means that they are forced to go to London or New York for equity.

With 117 major EU companies listed on the Stock Exchange, the economists behind the dossier believe it is a "magic key" to unlocking a trade deal while regaining full sovereignty.

The plan to use London's status as a financial hub as a lever by threatening to restrict EU firms access to it.

Brexiters have consistently used the argument that the fact the UK buys more *goods* from the EU than it sell to the EU as a lever aka "the customer is holds the power"

Now they are using the fact EU buys more *financial services* from the UK than it sell to the UK as a lever aka "the seller holds the power"

Both "customer holds the power" and "seller holds the power" can be true in different circumstances.

It depends who has the monoooly.

If the customer is the only customer and there is nobody else the seller can sell to, then yes, the customer has the power.

But if there is only one seller the customer can buy from, the seller has the power.

For goods, the EU has many customers.  The loss (or more accurately reduction) of sales to the UK will be annoying, catastrophic for a few, but not insurmountable.

For finance, the EU has many sellers.  Sure London was the most convenient whilst the UK was a member.  But now it's not, there's others to chose from. Again not insurmountable.

On the other hand foreign banks are based in London partly because of it's access to the EU markets. Cutting that off makes London a bit less attractive as a destination.

[Nick]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1331850/brexit-news-michel-barnier-uk-EU-david-frost-boris-johnson

The weapon being another variant of threatening to get blood on their carpet by blowing out own face off.

I can't honestly believe that anyone in government is actually thinking this.

However I bet many Brexit supporters think this is a good idea.

Prove me wrong.

Are you reading the same article as me? This one has one paragraph about warning the EU, the rest is showing what a complete arse Barnier is. "The waters might be sovereign but the fish aren't" 😂. Who is he? Danny champion of the world?

[T00ts]

Anyone who fondly thinks that negotiations involves the opponents being friends are off the wall. On the surface it may well be polite even tolerant but the bottom line is which side will blink, which side will back down, which side is going to give in is the bottom line. We kid ourselves if we think this negotiation is based on anything but nerve.

The EU has had 40+ years of studying our nerve. Too often it has been found to be weak, Maggie Thatcher was the only one to dig her heels in and they hated her. Forgive me guys but there is nothing quite like a man at work and she saw through them. It is all about ego for far too many.

Again now we are testing egos. My sincere hope is that every UK negotiator takes his handbag in order to emulate Maggie and show the EU that we are now their equal and not their servants. I can hear the remain laughter already but unless we believe in our worth and our futures and our independence we might as well roll over once again and prove to everyone that we haven't got the mettle.

[Thomas]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1331850/brexit-news-michel-barnier-uk-EU-david-frost-boris-johnson

The weapon being another variant of threatening to get blood on their carpet by blowing out own face off.

I can't honestly believe that anyone in government is actually thinking this.

However I bet many Brexit supporters think this is a good idea.

Prove me wrong.

Well i think as lord frost said , the trouble now with the eu is down to the disasterous may administration , that bent over backwards to surrender to the eu at almost every turn.

So now , the eu have learned not to take the uk serious.

Lord Frost told the newspaper: "We came in after a government and negotiating team that had blinked and had its bluff called at critical moments, and the EU had learned not to take us seriously.

Lord Frost, 55, a former diplomat and once the UK's ambassador to Norway, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress so far.

He told The Mail On Sunday: "They have not accepted that in key areas of our national life we want to be able to control our own laws and do things our way and use the freedom that comes after Brexit.

"We are not going to be a client state. We are not going to compromise on the fundamentals of having control over our own laws.

"We are not going to accept level playing field provisions that lock us into the way the EU do things.

"We are not going to accept provisions that give them control over our money or the way we can organise things here in the UK and that should not be controversial - that's what being an independent country is about."

I think johnson is doing the right thing.

Had remainers like mrs May , and those anti democrats in parliament for the last four years till the election last decemebr not bent over backwards to accomodate the eu in every way ( while trying to sell capitulation as a victory) and try and tie the uk to some BRINO , we might be in a better place today.

Instead , remainers have brought all this on their own heads , and completely hardened the public opinion and turned the voter deaf to remainers complaints and bogeymen.

Its the boy who cried wolf now, no one is listening.

16 and a bit weeks to go till democracy is enacted.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-will-not-blink-first-ahead-of-eighth-round-of-brexit-trade-talks-12064845

[BeElBeeBub]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1331850/brexit-news-michel-barnier-uk-EU-david-frost-boris-johnson

The weapon being another variant of threatening to get blood on their carpet by blowing out own face off.

I can't honestly believe that anyone in government is actually thinking this.

However I bet many Brexit supporters think this is a good idea.

Prove me wrong.