Have we become ungovernable?

[T00ts]

I didn't blame Boris exclusively. But he is a part of the problem, sorry but for me that conclusion is inescapable.

But I agree with your gist that we should care for others' wellbeing. I think a selfless society where people put others first; a society where one looks after others, means each person doesn't have to look out for themselves in such a mean and ruthless way.

There are countless factors to this, as you allude.

I think a lot of it is in society and the shift away from Christian values (trying not to mention politicians here as per your request) towards selfish individualistic values. I think that's happened so many times before.

Sometimes I think ancient English society (pre medieval) was the fairest of them all.

The more I think about my original question the more difficult it becomes. I guess through history there have always been those who kick the traces. Even in medieval times I would  be upset by the position of women so in a way I accept that things have always had to change according to beliefs and education. Maybe I need to take a step back and think it through until I have a definite point of view.

[srb7677]

I think there is a problem with lack of enforcement.

The government is forever coming up with new laws without making any provision for their enforcement at all, effectively leaving it to the discretion of the public.

Take the law on facemasks in shops for example. They are mandatory now but the stores themselves are not mandated to enforce it, so don't because they lack the authority and don't want the grief. And the police who in theory should be coming in occasionally to enforce it don't seem to bother. So people are openly flouting the law, wandering around without masks. Others are wearing their masks under their fucking noses which is about as much use as wearing it around their arses. One T@@@ was spotted with a state of the art mask and a huge great hole cut in the middle of it so his nose could stick out. Anyone out there catching or fining these twats? No sign.

There is no point at all in having laws when obeying them seems to be optional.

Ever more laws, ever less enforcement of them, appears to be the way things are going.

[papasmurf]

If this happens it will be a very stupid move by the government, I don't think calling senior clergy part of an organised crime group is  good idea:-

https://news.sky.com/story/extinction-rebellion-could-be-reclassified-as-an-organised-crime-group-12064982

[Borg Refinery]

IMHO both.

I suspect you agree with the restrictive freedom of speech part.

.

I'm not sure I do, I think I am more put out by individual loss of self control. For me there seems to be an extravagance of letting everything go. Tempers flare, disobedience in all sorts of areas is largely ignored to the extent that the impact on others tends to be overlooked. There are many who find fitting in for the good of society as a whole, irrelevant. I just wonder if these tendencies continue whether anarchy will become the norm.

Well, if society has degenerated (as you seem to agree it has) and the 'norm' is really quite bad, what do you expect? I'm not fitting in with that - not for one second!

I don't think you want to either, you don't strike me as the type. You are surely someone who believes in what's right regardless of what anyone else thinks of you, or how they judge? We live in a society (IMHO) with a PM who thinks it perfectly ok to say that child abuse investigations = money 'spaffed up the wall', a society & govt that pardons all kinds of heinous behaviour.

Things like social media run rampant, just see this -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/01/09/twitter-accused-aiding-child-abuse-allowing-explosion-online/amp/

I can't accept a society that unquestioningly defers to people who let such run rampant, I just can't and won't. Is that wrong?

I wasn't sure which section to put this thread because I hoped it wouldn't become partisan political so to blame a PM, just one man, feels a bit simplistic. Surely this is a malaise which has been evolving for decades, encouraged by many diverse reasons and decisions. My worry is that the current trajectory is going at such a rate it may be impossible to stop and with individual lack of concern  of each person's activity on the collective wellbeing taking us over the edge.

I realise we are still looking at a minority of people with this attitude but it is always surprising how behaviour can so easily become the new norm.

I didn't blame Boris exclusively. But he is a part of the problem, sorry but for me that conclusion is inescapable.

But I agree with your gist that we should care for others' wellbeing. I think a selfless society where people put others first; a society where one looks after others, means each person doesn't have to look out for themselves in such a mean and ruthless way.

There are countless factors to this, as you allude.

I think a lot of it is in society and the shift away from Christian values (trying not to mention politicians here as per your request) towards selfish individualistic values. I think that's happened so many times before.

Sometimes I think ancient English society (pre medieval) was the fairest of them all.

[T00ts]

IMHO both.

I suspect you agree with the restrictive freedom of speech part.

.

I'm not sure I do, I think I am more put out by individual loss of self control. For me there seems to be an extravagance of letting everything go. Tempers flare, disobedience in all sorts of areas is largely ignored to the extent that the impact on others tends to be overlooked. There are many who find fitting in for the good of society as a whole, irrelevant. I just wonder if these tendencies continue whether anarchy will become the norm.

Well, if society has degenerated (as you seem to agree it has) and the 'norm' is really quite bad, what do you expect? I'm not fitting in with that - not for one second!

I don't think you want to either, you don't strike me as the type. You are surely someone who believes in what's right regardless of what anyone else thinks of you, or how they judge? We live in a society (IMHO) with a PM who thinks it perfectly ok to say that child abuse investigations = money 'spaffed up the wall', a society & govt that pardons all kinds of heinous behaviour.

Things like social media run rampant, just see this -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/01/09/twitter-accused-aiding-child-abuse-allowing-explosion-online/amp/

I can't accept a society that unquestioningly defers to people who let such run rampant, I just can't and won't. Is that wrong?

I wasn't sure which section to put this thread because I hoped it wouldn't become partisan political so to blame a PM, just one man, feels a bit simplistic. Surely this is a malaise which has been evolving for decades, encouraged by many diverse reasons and decisions. My worry is that the current trajectory is going at such a rate it may be impossible to stop and with individual lack of concern  of each person's activity on the collective wellbeing taking us over the edge.

I realise we are still looking at a minority of people with this attitude but it is always surprising how behaviour can so easily become the new norm.

[Borg Refinery]

IMHO both.

I suspect you agree with the restrictive freedom of speech part.

.

I'm not sure I do, I think I am more put out by individual loss of self control. For me there seems to be an extravagance of letting everything go. Tempers flare, disobedience in all sorts of areas is largely ignored to the extent that the impact on others tends to be overlooked. There are many who find fitting in for the good of society as a whole, irrelevant. I just wonder if these tendencies continue whether anarchy will become the norm.

Well, if society has degenerated (as you seem to agree it has) and the 'norm' is really quite bad, what do you expect? I'm not fitting in with that - not for one second!

I don't think you want to either, you don't strike me as the type. You are surely someone who believes in what's right regardless of what anyone else thinks of you, or how they judge? We live in a society (IMHO) with a PM who thinks it perfectly ok to say that child abuse investigations = money 'spaffed up the wall', a society & govt that pardons all kinds of heinous behaviour.

Things like social media run rampant, just see this -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/01/09/twitter-accused-aiding-child-abuse-allowing-explosion-online/amp/

I can't accept a society that unquestioningly defers to people who let such run rampant, I just can't and won't. Is that wrong?

[T00ts]

IMHO both.

I suspect you agree with the restrictive freedom of speech part.

.

I'm not sure I do, I think I am more put out by individual loss of self control. For me there seems to be an extravagance of letting everything go. Tempers flare, disobedience in all sorts of areas is largely ignored to the extent that the impact on others tends to be overlooked. There are many who find fitting in for the good of society as a whole, irrelevant. I just wonder if these tendencies continue whether anarchy will become the norm.

[Borg Refinery]

IMHO both.

I suspect you agree with the restrictive freedom of speech part.

[T00ts]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Really? What are you thinking of?

Is that rhetorical as in "you are nuts" or a question?

Gosh no, what lack of freedom are you thinking of?

Just about everything, life is quite restrictive in this country and more-so under pandemic regulations.

Freedom of assembly (protests) are extremely crimped nowdays, which you probably think is a good thing.

Freedom of speech? Say the wrong things and you're in jail. Just try to utter a light joke about 'protected subjects - both lefties and righties are guilty of creating that atmosphere.

Economic freedom is a joke - this country is crony capitalist, so much power and wealth is concetrated, feels like the 1920's.

I could moan and rant for hours.

I'm not sure we are on the same page. Are those restrictions imposed by governments or by society in your view?

[Borg Refinery]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Really? What are you thinking of?

Is that rhetorical as in "you are nuts" or a question?

Gosh no, what lack of freedom are you thinking of?

Just about everything, life is quite restrictive in this country and more-so under pandemic regulations.

Freedom of assembly (protests) are extremely crimped nowdays, which you probably think is a good thing.

Freedom of speech? Say the wrong things and you're in jail. Just try to utter a light joke about 'protected subjects - both lefties and righties are guilty of creating that atmosphere.

Economic freedom is a joke - this country is crony capitalist, so much power and wealth is concetrated, feels like the 1920's.

I could moan and rant for hours.

[papasmurf]

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Too little freedom?  Do you mean Covid-19 regulations or in general?

[T00ts]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Really? What are you thinking of?

Is that rhetorical as in "you are nuts" or a question?

Gosh no, what lack of freedom are you thinking of?

[Borg Refinery]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Really? What are you thinking of?

Is that rhetorical as in "you are nuts" or a question?

[T00ts]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..

Really? What are you thinking of?

[Borg Refinery]

Which is still more use than some.

Anyway, no freedom.hasn't gone too far, but there are a diverse range of maladies plaguing society which appear to stem from too little freedom..