Gove in his infinite wisdom

[GerryT]

Excuse for what? I don't need to fight their corner, they can do that themselves. I have always kept the same line. Facts are the facts.

Sheepy your example of a wake up call for the SNP was that the EU empire would not give Scotland it's independence.

I point out Art50 is a very simple exit and it's unilateral and the EU has no power in a countries independence.

I then point out Johnson this January refusing Scotland a vote for independence.

Don't you see your example is poop. Wrong and actually pointing out the hypocrisy of the UK

[Sheepy]

Well we obviously haven't then have we. Even SNP voters have gotten a wake up call about the EU.

What was that wake up call.

An insight into just how the EU works and under an EU regime they have zero chance of independence. Which I am sure Thomas will back up over the years, I have always said I have respect for those who say they want an independent Scotland free of the Westminster party but they would never get any such thing as part of the EU. Just like when the populists fought their corner on a referendum in the first place, we never said anything about keeping them in the EU, when we always made it plain we were anti-EU. What the Westminster party told them, they are responsible for not the rest of us, the only thing we said was don't put yourselves in the poor house.

What are you talking about, if Scotland separated from the UK and if it joined the EU and if it then wanted to leave. IS that what your talking about ??

If so then all Scotland need do is sent a letter and leave, what's not independent about that    It's like breaking up by text.

Then you have the total opposite in the UK where Scotland CAN'T leave the UK without begging for a vote from the English Govt. Where Johnson refused Scotland the vote. Sheepy you better come up with a better excuse !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/14/boris-johnson-refuses-to-grant-scotland-powers-to-hold-independence-vote

Excuse for what? I don't need to fight their corner, they can do that themselves. I have always kept the same line. Facts are the facts. In fact myself and a few others have had blazing rows with SNP supporters about it, Eventually everyone sees the light about the EU. even you eventually.

[GerryT]

Well we obviously haven't then have we. Even SNP voters have gotten a wake up call about the EU.

What was that wake up call.

An insight into just how the EU works and under an EU regime they have zero chance of independence. Which I am sure Thomas will back up over the years, I have always said I have respect for those who say they want an independent Scotland free of the Westminster party but they would never get any such thing as part of the EU. Just like when the populists fought their corner on a referendum in the first place, we never said anything about keeping them in the EU, when we always made it plain we were anti-EU. What the Westminster party told them, they are responsible for not the rest of us, the only thing we said was don't put yourselves in the poor house.

What are you talking about, if Scotland separated from the UK and if it joined the EU and if it then wanted to leave. IS that what your talking about ??

If so then all Scotland need do is sent a letter and leave, what's not independent about that    It's like breaking up by text.

Then you have the total opposite in the UK where Scotland CAN'T leave the UK without begging for a vote from the English Govt. Where Johnson refused Scotland the vote. Sheepy you better come up with a better excuse !  The Irony of your comment

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/14/boris-johnson-refuses-to-grant-scotland-powers-to-hold-independence-vote

[GerryT]

You're preaching to the converted, the problem is while it is "hard to do in reality", it is still the best (and only) option here given the "fudging" that Boris is engaging in as you say.

There's really no alternative other than a peasants' rebellion. 😋

Agh the peasant class, all the Irish fall into that group by all accounts.  You can just see Boris in January, down at Dover, not a queue in sight and his new big red bus with some celebration jingo declaring Brexit a resounding success. Meanwhile at the Kent border 7,000 truckers pull their hair out as the police refuse them entry.

[Sheepy]

Well we obviously haven't then have we. Even SNP voters have gotten a wake up call about the EU.

What was that wake up call.

An insight into just how the EU works and under an EU regime they have zero chance of independence. Which I am sure Thomas will back up over the years, I have always said I have respect for those who say they want an independent Scotland free of the Westminster party but they would never get any such thing as part of the EU. Just like when the populists fought their corner on a referendum in the first place, we never said anything about keeping them in the EU, when we always made it plain we were anti-EU. What the Westminster party told them, they are responsible for not the rest of us, the only thing we said was don't put yourselves in the poor house.

[Borg Refinery]

In the light of the Leave majority vote way back in 2016 - that's 4 + years ago - any business worth it's salt should have been diversifying from the next week or at least laying plans. If a business is poor enough to think that their business model is going to get them from cradle to the grave and runs without at least half an ear to ongoing developments with adjustments accordingly really is in the wrong business. I ran a business for 46 years, I cannot count how many times the model changed to allow for changes in fashion and trends and clientele. In that time legislations changed goodness knows how many times and mine was a relatively small business in comparison to those who are shouting that the government hasn't told them what to do. Whose business is it? Be active, find out the possibilities from all the info out there. Feet of clay don't pay!

Businesses have been screaming that they want to know what the new regime is for about 4 years.

The government, who are the ones setting up the new regime, haven't told them.

You can say "feet of clay", but being told you need to something without being told what that something is, doesn't help.

There were experts and consultants out there who were telling companies what to expect (alot more paperwork and cost mainly)

However these are the very same people brexiters have been calling remainers and accusing of "project fear" this entire time.

Blaming companies for not listening to the very people you (in the general sense) have been telling them not to listen to is pretty rich.

It's always someone else's responsibility and always someone else's job. Years of being spoon fed by EU directives has removed the British backbone and incentive.

You mean the directives like equal pay for foreign workers and native ones which the Tory MEP's actually opposed despite blaming the EU for migrants coming in and undercutting wages?

Would you like a reference or a link?

I could reel off a long list of so many others, but you probably wouldn't even listen. 

[GerryT]

Well we obviously haven't then have we. Even SNP voters have gotten a wake up call about the EU.

What was that wake up call.

[papasmurf]

It's always someone else's responsibility and always someone else's job. Years of being spoon fed by EU directives has removed the British backbone and incentive.

This is all about compliance, business has to know what they have to be compliant with, and they don't in this instance have that knowledge because the government has not told them.

[T00ts]

In the light of the Leave majority vote way back in 2016 - that's 4 + years ago - any business worth it's salt should have been diversifying from the next week or at least laying plans. If a business is poor enough to think that their business model is going to get them from cradle to the grave and runs without at least half an ear to ongoing developments with adjustments accordingly really is in the wrong business. I ran a business for 46 years, I cannot count how many times the model changed to allow for changes in fashion and trends and clientele. In that time legislations changed goodness knows how many times and mine was a relatively small business in comparison to those who are shouting that the government hasn't told them what to do. Whose business is it? Be active, find out the possibilities from all the info out there. Feet of clay don't pay!

Businesses have been screaming that they want to know what the new regime is for about 4 years.

The government, who are the ones setting up the new regime, haven't told them.

You can say "feet of clay", but being told you need to something without being told what that something is, doesn't help.

There were experts and consultants out there who were telling companies what to expect (alot more paperwork and cost mainly)

However these are the very same people brexiters have been calling remainers and accusing of "project fear" this entire time.

Blaming companies for not listening to the very people you (in the general sense) have been telling them not to listen to is pretty rich.

It's always someone else's responsibility and always someone else's job. Years of being spoon fed by EU directives has removed the British backbone and incentive.

[Borg Refinery]

Seek advice from real experts (ie, not this govt) about how to mitigate against any potential shortcomings from any of the likely scenarios facing us re Brexit.

Hard to do in reality. The EU wants to give 3rd country status to the UK. For this to happen the EU needs to know what the UK law/standards are and the EU will check that matches the EU's for goods the UK intend to sell into the EU. If it does then UK products made to that standard can be shipped to the EU. Problem is the UK hasn't yet sent those laws/standards to the EU for review. Not surprising really with the incompetence of Johnson's govt.
This means UK manufacturers don't know what to do. They can't continue to label their products EU compliant, as the UK is out of the EU and for that to happen the UK would need to have setup inspection and certification facilities...guess what...that's not done either.
It's going to be very tough for UK manufacturers unless they very very quickly get direct from bojo the clown.
The Eu doesn't do "fudge it" which the UK does, wait for it when Johnson spins this and blames it on the EU when the shit hits the fan

You're preaching to the converted, the problem is while it is "hard to do in reality", it is still the best (and only) option here given the "fudging" that Boris is engaging in as you say.

There's really no alternative other than a peasants' rebellion. 😋

[BeElBeeBub]

In the light of the Leave majority vote way back in 2016 - that's 4 + years ago - any business worth it's salt should have been diversifying from the next week or at least laying plans. If a business is poor enough to think that their business model is going to get them from cradle to the grave and runs without at least half an ear to ongoing developments with adjustments accordingly really is in the wrong business. I ran a business for 46 years, I cannot count how many times the model changed to allow for changes in fashion and trends and clientele. In that time legislations changed goodness knows how many times and mine was a relatively small business in comparison to those who are shouting that the government hasn't told them what to do. Whose business is it? Be active, find out the possibilities from all the info out there. Feet of clay don't pay!

Businesses have been screaming that they want to know what the new regime is for about 4 years.

The government, who are the ones setting up the new regime, haven't told them.

You can say "feet of clay", but being told you need to something without being told what that something is, doesn't help.

There were experts and consultants out there who were telling companies what to expect (alot more paperwork and cost mainly)

However these are the very same people brexiters have been calling remainers and accusing of "project fear" this entire time.

Blaming companies for not listening to the very people you (in the general sense) have been telling them not to listen to is pretty rich.

[Sheepy]

You are dumb as a rock Gerry, it is going to change the same as politics is changing. I told you I can only give you the facts, you are a non entity, like the EU. No say and no future.

I'm dumb, the UK always had control over it's borders except in one limited area where EU nationals were contributing to the UK economy which you weren't talking about. Other than that everything remains the same, and you think that's a change.

Well we obviously haven't then have we. Even SNP voters have gotten a wake up call about the EU.

[GerryT]

You are dumb as a rock Gerry, it is going to change the same as politics is changing. I told you I can only give you the facts, you are a non entity, like the EU. No say and no future.

I'm dumb, the UK always had control over it's borders except in one limited area where EU nationals were contributing to the UK economy which you weren't talking about. Other than that everything remains the same, and you think that's a change.

[GerryT]

Seek advice from real experts (ie, not this govt) about how to mitigate against any potential shortcomings from any of the likely scenarios facing us re Brexit.

Hard to do in reality. The EU wants to give 3rd country status to the UK. For this to happen the EU needs to know what the UK law/standards are and the EU will check that matches the EU's for goods the UK intend to sell into the EU. If it does then UK products made to that standard can be shipped to the EU. Problem is the UK hasn't yet sent those laws/standards to the EU for review. Not surprising really with the incompetence of Johnson's govt.
This means UK manufacturers don't know what to do. They can't continue to label their products EU compliant, as the UK is out of the EU and for that to happen the UK would need to have setup inspection and certification facilities...guess what...that's not done either.
It's going to be very tough for UK manufacturers unless they very very quickly get direct from bojo the clown.
The Eu doesn't do "fudge it" which the UK does, wait for it when Johnson spins this and blames it on the EU when the shit hits the fan

[Sheepy]

Well it probably doesn't help that the EU and the French have pretended they have been stopping an invasion, while actually thinking out of sight out of mind and really it is the UK's problem, while traffickers have happily delivered them to the French border with telephones so once they get to the UK they can go on a crime wave to repay said traffickers, while claiming for everything possible, as well as assorted terrorists. what could possibly go wrong, on top of an Eastern European crime wave. While knowing full well our cities have been divided up into little enclaves of assorted cultures already. I really cannot see we want any more EU favours thanks, while all the time the EU has been sucking any wealth right out of the place. Just saying, not as though any perspective will change you, as it is rumoured the Irish have learnt Cathoholicism is not so pretty, but you have found a new religion, the EU.

Smuggling and trafficking is a problem every country has, the UK is not unique. If your not dealing with it don't go blaming the EU. That has a familiar ring to it. As for people coming and living in the EU, there were always two categories, non EU and for this group brexit changes nothing as what you could do in January is the same as today.  FOr EU nationals that couldn't support themselves, get work and contribute to UK society you could have sent them home after 6mths, you still can today. If you are doing none of that then go blame your Govt.
These are part of the lies of Brexit. Unfortunate immigration/emmigration/refugees is not going to change under brexit.

If you don't like the look of the UK today then don't blame the EU, that had nothing to do with them. Maybe if the UK hadn't over centuries controlled other countries then those people from all over the world wouldn't be living in your country.

You are dumb as a rock Gerry, it is going to change the same as politics is changing. I told you I can only give you the facts, you are a non entity, like the EU. No say and no future.