Good deal or too many concessions?

[Conchúr]

The DUP were well warned what Brexit would potentially mean for Northern Ireland and they campaigned for it anyway.  The Union with Great Britain had never been as secure as it was from the Good Friday Agreement onward. The Irish population of Northern Ireland had been appeased with recognition of their Irish nationality and citizenship rights, as well as the fact that the free-flowing border meant that they could interact with the whole island socially and commercially. What's more, Nationalists had effectively legitimised Northern Ireland's place in the UK by agreeing that it was not Irish territory by any right, but its status would hinge on popular consent.  



The DUP have severely miscalculated their stance on Brexit.  The dogs in the street knew that the DUP never gave a toss about EU membership itself — they never really cared about sovereignty or free movement — they simply thought that leaving would create a wider regulatory and economic chasm between North and South, which would make any future reunification more difficult and less palatable. It is looking increasingly likely that this is going to backfire.



The DUP took a good sandwich, hovered over it, and took a shite right on top of the lettuce. Now they don't want to take a bite.

[GerryT]

Nobody is stopping anyone from leaving, apart fro the UK stopping itself that is. How are the EU stopping the UK    you answer it yourself, Corbyn won't vote for any deal BJ brings and the DUP won't support Johnson if he does try to honour the GFA. Sounds like an internal UK problem, it's been that way for 3 yrs, in fact trying to blame the EU for anything going wrong is a UK pastime, .has been for decades

Yes, the idiot unelected minorities are stopping Brexit, but the EU doesn't have to make any concessions and can play hardball. If a no-deal Brexit was about to happen they would find solutions.

What are you talking about, it's the elected UK officials that are stopping brexit, it' the elected UK officials looking for extensions and its the UK courts saying the UK can't leave without a deal.

As for concessions, what concession has the UK given  ??  the backstop is a EU concession.

And yes why would the EU make any FURTHER concessions, the UK is leaving, the UK has a problem with the GFA so it has to make concessions, the UK will have no trade deals and needs a deal with geographically close countries.



Who are the idiot unelected minority in the UK then ?

[Cassie]

It's clear they just want us to remain in the EU and are doing anything to stop us leaving. If they don't want a no-deal Brexit, vote for a deal, but Corbyn has already said that he won't vote for any deal the BJ brings to the commons.

Nobody is stopping anyone from leaving, apart fro the UK stopping itself that is. How are the EU stopping the UK    you answer it yourself, Corbyn won't vote for any deal BJ brings and the DUP won't support Johnson if he does try to honour the GFA. Sounds like an internal UK problem, it's been that way for 3 yrs, in fact trying to blame the EU for anything going wrong is a UK pastime, .has been for decades

Yes, the idiot unelected minorities are stopping Brexit, but the EU doesn't have to make any concessions and can play hardball. If a no-deal Brexit was about to happen they would find solutions.

[GerryT]

Peoples vote,confirmatory vote?.....what rubbish that they think these terms will fool anyone with a single brain cell it's a bloody second referendum which ain't popular.

It's clear they just want us to remain in the EU and are doing anything to stop us leaving. If they don't want a no-deal Brexit, vote for a deal, but Corbyn has already said that he won't vote for any deal the BJ brings to the commons.

Nobody is stopping anyone from leaving, apart fro the UK stopping itself that is. How are the EU stopping the UK    you answer it yourself, Corbyn won't vote for any deal BJ brings and the DUP won't support Johnson if he does try to honour the GFA. Sounds like an internal UK problem, it's been that way for 3 yrs, in fact trying to blame the EU for anything going wrong is a UK pastime, .has been for decades

[Tbird]

What would be an alternative deal? It was inevitable that certainly with the stated time scale it would be a rehash of May's agreement. It would have been crazy to scrap it completely. Not every clause was bad. The main sticking point was the backstop and the hold the EU claimed in the decision to come out of it. It is already a large step to have got them to re-open the WA since they vowed they never would. Although this may have to be additional terms. Hopefully our lawyers are good enough in their vetting.

Well, IMHO, one mostly overlooked toxic part in traitor May's deal are those "level playing field" clause and so far, BJ is holding firm that it has to be scrapped.

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Will EU try to put it back through backdoor would be another story.

[Cassie]

Peoples vote,confirmatory vote?.....what rubbish that they think these terms will fool anyone with a single brain cell it's a bloody second referendum which ain't popular.

It's clear they just want us to remain in the EU and are doing anything to stop us leaving. If they don't want a no-deal Brexit, vote for a deal, but Corbyn has already said that he won't vote for any deal the BJ brings to the commons.

[cromwell]

Peoples vote,confirmatory vote?.....what rubbish that they think these terms will fool anyone with a single brain cell it's a bloody second referendum which ain't popular.

[Cassie]

Nothing will get through Parliament unless a, what is it these days, people's vote, confirmatory vote, another referendum, is added? There was a sensible older Labour MP saying he wouldn't vote for another referendum, even though he voted to remain as the people had voted for leave. I just hope there are more sensible people in Parliament to reject that clause been added. That said, I don't think the DUP are going to go for it and I don't blame them, they are part of the UK and should be included in the deal which keeps them part of the UK.

[T00ts]

We don't know for sure, but I think Bojo has made a huge concession. DUP won't go for it if it's affecting NI and it's links with the UK.

It's unclear how he can make a deal which meets the UK's obligations to the Good Friday Agreement without making significant concessions. Mr Johnson has returned to the draft withdrawal agreement originally proposed by the EU which May rejected.



It appears he's trying to get it changed to make it more domestically palatable but it seems this is where he's coming into conflict with the EU because they won't let Northern Ireland remain within the Customs Union without the UK also agreeing to various other conditions which prevent the UK exploiting the situation to gain an advantage over the EU.



I believe Mr Barnier has set a deadline if tonight for the final proposal to be made so the EU can consider it this week.

What would be an alternative deal? It was inevitable that certainly with the stated time scale it would be a rehash of May's agreement. It would have been crazy to scrap it completely. Not every clause was bad. The main sticking point was the backstop and the hold the EU claimed in the decision to come out of it. It is already a large step to have got them to re-open the WA since they vowed they never would. Although this may have to be additional terms. Hopefully our lawyers are good enough in their vetting.

[Ciaphas]

We don't know for sure, but I think Bojo has made a huge concession. DUP won't go for it if it's affecting NI and it's links with the UK.

It's unclear how he can make a deal which meets the UK's obligations to the Good Friday Agreement without making significant concessions. Mr Johnson has returned to the draft withdrawal agreement originally proposed by the EU which May rejected.



It appears he's trying to get it changed to make it more domestically palatable but it seems this is where he's coming into conflict with the EU because they won't let Northern Ireland remain within the Customs Union without the UK also agreeing to various other conditions which prevent the UK exploiting the situation to gain an advantage over the EU.



I believe Mr Barnier has set a deadline if tonight for the final proposal to be made so the EU can consider it this week.

[Cassie]

I definitely think a deal would pass - if there is another referendum attached to it. People wanting this just keep saying that it's such a mess, it has too go back to the people so they can sort it out. It's only a mess because politicians reneged on their assertion that they would implement the result of the referendum. I'm all for another referendum if no-deal and deal are on the paper.

[Stevlin]

Indeed Toots.....but both 'We', and 'They' will in any event  be looking for a post Brexit Trade deal, as it would be of mutual advantage after all....but it is ludicrous for anyone, (other than May perhaps), to believe that the UK actually 'OWE' the EU such a huge amount of money....We undoubtedly do have a commitment for a certain amount - but common sense should dictate that it can't be anywhere near that huge sum. The current budget 'finishes' in 2020....and it is inconceivable that the EU's 'future'  commitment, could in reality, amount to another 5 years of UK net EU 'membership fees', after we , (hopefully), leave this year.

That is all very reasonable but sadly I don't think the EU do reasonable.

Well as usual Toots - you make a valid point!!   ;o)

[T00ts]

True - but don't you think that if we were then to look for a trade agreement it would be the first item on the agenda? (BTW glad you came over - always enjoy your posts)

Indeed Toots.....but both 'We', and 'They' will in any event  be looking for a post Brexit Trade deal, as it would be of mutual advantage after all....but it is ludicrous for anyone, (other than May perhaps), to believe that the UK actually 'OWE' the EU such a huge amount of money....We undoubtedly do have a commitment for a certain amount - but common sense should dictate that it can't be anywhere near that huge sum. The current budget 'finishes' in 2020....and it is inconceivable that the EU's 'future'  commitment, could in reality, amount to another 5 years of UK net EU 'membership fees', after we , (hopefully), leave this year.

That is all very reasonable but sadly I don't think the EU do reasonable.

[Stevlin]

I can still think of 39 billion reasons why a no-deal would be better!!

True - but don't you think that if we were then to look for a trade agreement it would be the first item on the agenda? (BTW glad you came over - always enjoy your posts)

Indeed Toots.....but both 'We', and 'They' will in any event  be looking for a post Brexit Trade deal, as it would be of mutual advantage after all....but it is ludicrous for anyone, (other than May perhaps), to believe that the UK actually 'OWE' the EU such a huge amount of money....We undoubtedly do have a commitment for a certain amount - but common sense should dictate that it can't be anywhere near that huge sum. The current budget 'finishes' in 2020....and it is inconceivable that the EU's 'future'  commitment, could in reality, amount to another 5 years of UK net EU 'membership fees', after we , (hopefully), leave this year.

[T00ts]

I can still think of 39 billion reasons why a no-deal would be better!!

True - but don't you think that if we were then to look for a trade agreement it would be the first item on the agenda? (BTW glad you came over - always enjoy your posts)